Not Feeling Well? New Hand signal.

[jseyfert3]

Do you have any idea what kind of time, effort, and money it takes to update a course that is translated into dozens of languages and printed in countless manuals around the world? You don't just abandon the materials already in existence when you come up with one item to include in the next revision.

Probably quite a bit. But I never said anything about abandoning existing materials. I said it hasn’t been incorporated into existing materials, specifically online based ones where minor revisions and additions are easy to do (as opposed to books).

For example, the Apple iStore says the PADI app has been updated 25 times in the last two years. Hand signals are a tab with a simple list of signals and a picture, nothing more. Granted, a large chuck of updates where bug improvements, but many said revisions and/or enhancements.

It would seem that adding one more entry to the list, along with a single picture, would be something that would be tasked in one of those updates, if it’s something they are implementing?

But your zeal in attacking PADI for whatever you can think of is duly noted.

Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it. To be clear, I wasn’t trying to bash PADI, except was one comment that on review I should not have said. I will do better to think about what I say in the future.

Otherwise, I was trying to direct my comments on the signal itself, why I thought it was unnecessary, and signs that appears that PADI did not implement it. The latter not to bash PADI at all, but merely to suggest they had potentially changed their mind on implementing the signal. The perhaps unstated intention of bringing up this possibility was to further support my argument that the signal was redundant, unnecessary, and not a great use of limited instructional time.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Probably quite a bit.

Actually it isn't that big of a deal. I know a number of people who do this professionally. We are talking just one additional hand sign. It really isn't hard. Just outsource it to professionals to update the document text and you're done. Unless the people you outsource to are super busy, it won't take more than a quarter.

 

[ChrisDee]

Simple fact many have died, when help was just few feet away. In some incident reports, including some from Roatan, indicated the deceased was viewed and was motioning. This is the point that, again, you all are ignoring. Because everyone of you who has advocated inaction, part of problem. Over 80+ woldwide training agencies with reciprociaol agreements, most of these training have differing hand signal section, not including many independent books, but yet world wide no standardization, makes training agencies joke.

Here something for some of you: NetAddiction Reason why, you all sure don't actually dive anymore, self evedent. In additon, there is Debbi Snow, wonder if "student" was ignored as she decended and gave thumbs up signal? So muchfor thumb dive.

 

[BlueTrin]

Simple fact many have died, when help was just few feet away. In some incident reports, including some from Roatan, indicated the deceased was viewed and was motioning. This is the point that, again, you all are ignoring. Because everyone of you who has advocated inaction, part of problem. Over 80+ woldwide training agencies with reciprociaol agreements, most of these training have differing hand signal section, not including many independent books, but yet world wide no standardization, makes training agencies joke.

Here something for some of you: NetAddiction Reason why, you all sure don't actually dive anymore, self evedent. In additon, there is Debbi Snow, wonder if "student" was ignored as she decended and gave thumbs up signal? So muchfor thumb dive.

You assume that this signal will be interpreted differently.

There was a thread about this signal on this FB group: https://m.facebook.com/groups/16120...tps://m.facebook.com/groups/1612046102342961/

Some instructor posted that he/she had to ignore people when they thumbs up because they were basically “whiney complainers”/“holiday divers” and should be forced a bit at the beginning.

Do you think that would make a lot of difference if you waved that you feel sick if your guide/instructor has this attitude?

It is possible it would make a difference but it’s hard to tell aside from anecdotal evidence.

Your example with Debbie Snow is, in my opinion. the worst example to be in favour of this new signal: I mean there were so many red flags at every step, and you claim that the new signal would have save Mills.

Regardless I am all for trying things anyway: they may or may not pan in success, but hey it’s better to experiment than never trying I guess? At least we will see if that works and that’s probably progress to know rather than not knowing?

 

[ChrisDee]

You assume that this signal will be interpreted differently.

There was a thread about this signal on this FB group: https://m.facebook.com/groups/16120...tps://m.facebook.com/groups/1612046102342961/

Some instructor posted that he/she had to ignore people when they thumbs up because they were basically “whiney complainers”/“holiday divers” and should be forced a bit at the beginning.

Do you think that would make a lot of difference if you waved that you feel sick if your guide/instructor has this attitude?

Regardless I am all for trying things anyway: they may or may not pan in success, but hey it’s better to experiment than never trying I guess? At least we will see if that works and that’s probably progress to know rather than not knowing?

Thank you , your thoughts.

I know thumbs up signal is interperted differently. I know scuba learners worldwide not taught how to call for help.

 

[BlueTrin]

Thank you , your thoughts.

I know thumbs up signal is interperted differently. I know scuba learners worldwide not taught how to call for help.

Yea I am hopeful that at least adding a mandatory signal in the curriculum may have a side effect to force to teach people about the fact that it’s important to ask for help when you need it before it escalates out of control.

This would indirectly improve safety by changing the culture and may have a bigger effect than a new signal.

Like you said, many divers don’t want to be singled out so they rarely ask for help or even to stop and this is even more true with newer divers.

 

[lowwall]

Over 80+ woldwide training agencies with reciprociaol agreements, most of these training have differing hand signal section, not including many independent books, but yet world wide no standardization, makes training agencies joke.

You keep saying this, but it's not true. People failing to apply or learn the standards does not mean they don't exist. There is a literal WRSTC standard. These are provided in every WRSTC-affiliated OW course. That's PADI, SSI, NAUI, SDI, RAID, and a bunch more. I linked to it in an earlier post, but I'm going to go ahead and attach it to this one. Of course, the WRSTC is not universal, but it's the closest we have. I also found CMAS' basic signals (also attached) which, along with BSAC, covers most of the rest of the dive training world. "Something is wrong" is identical and the rest are either the same or close enough that it should not be hard to figure out.

Does anyone have BSAC's diver signals?

 

[BlueTrin]

You keep saying this, but it's not true. People failing to apply or learn the standards does not mean they don't exist. There is a literal WRSTC standard. I linked to it in an earlier post, but I'm going to go ahead and attach it to this one. Of course, the WRSTC is not universal, but it's the closest we have. I also found CMAS' basic signals (also attached). "Something is wrong" is identical and the rest are either the same or close enough that it should not be hard to figure out.

Does anyone have BSAC's diver signals?

I think bsac hand signals are not standardised. Please anyone correct me if I am wrong.

@Edward3c

 

[lowwall]

I think bsac hand signals are not standardised. Please anyone correct me if I am wrong.

@Edward3c

That would explain why I can't find them I looked at an older BSAC manual and, while it discusses signals, it does not show images of specific signals. I also found something from a BSAC local club, but they just used the WRSTC signals which were independently created for this wikipedia page: Diver communications - Wikipedia

 

[BlueTrin]

That would explain why I can't find them I looked at an older BSAC manual and, while it discusses signals, it does not show images of specific signals. I also found something from a BSAC local club, but they just used the WRSTC signals which were independently created for this wikipedia page: Diver communications - Wikipedia

Well there are a few signals on some materials for Ocean Divers but I didn’t find a complete list.

The bsac divers I know use the WRSTC signals too. I don’t think there is uniformity on some less standard things like ascend to 9m for 2 mins of deco, for example:

• Ascend to a certain depth, I have seen people use hands flat moving up with a circular movement. Some use thumbs up with a hand above
• Deco, I have seen some people add the little finger for d, some don’t add it because the previous signal indicated the depth and that you didn’t indicate to go to surface

Usually I just ask the first time I dive with someone to show me the signals he will use …