Non medical accident - gear lost - opinions please

[Jim Lapenta]

So, if you were going to go on liveaboard in Thailand, you would fly to Thailand first, check out the boat, then fly back home and book your trip?

That's kind of taking it to the extreme but not too far out of line except for flying back. If I were to take that kind of trip and incur that kind of expense I'd be sure to do my homework first. Web site, pics, opinions of divers who have used the op, and a clear written understanding of what I was contracting. IF none of this were available I would not book with that op in the first place but try to find another with a good rep or even do a different location. When I think of a boat that had I seen it I would not have booked I'm thinking sloppy crew, little or no obvious manintenance, inadequate safety equipment and procedures etc. To just go to a site and book a trip without the benefit of first hand experience myself or with people whose opinion I trust is not a chance I want to take.

 

[ReefHound]

I don't know the answers but a few points to consider:

- what did the waivers say? You may have waived them of responsibility.

- what was said and done at the time? Did you file a claim, write up a report, make any demands for compensation?

- do you have witnesses who will support your story?

 

[raviepoo]

It's the norm in some places. It's pretty normal in the area where the incident happened. I always readjust my stuff after crew touches it though. They always mess at least one thing up.

Is this 'crew assistance' the norm because if so I see a great many heated scuffles and debates in my future diving!!

______________________________________________________________

I go both ways - Pilot and Diver! :no

 

[DandyDon]

So, you're not telling Where this happened, much less with Whom...?!

 

[raviepoo]

So, raviepoo - where did this happen, and what is the Op offerring...?

It happened in the US. The owner of the boat accepted responsibility without waffling. IMHO the business is clearly responsible and I'm certain a court of law would find with me. I have pictures from the boat showing that their normal setup is insufficient to hold tanks in place. I also have the boat's written policy stating that they set up all gear.

I feel really bad because I know it was an accident. No one did anything deliberately. But the bottom line is this - I entrusted my rig to them because they require it of their passengers. My rig went overboard while it was in their custody. I don't really see any viable argument in that.

The boat owner offered to reimburse me for the lost gear, but not at MSRP. I might make an issue about it, because the figure he calculated would not allow me to buy fully warrantied gear from a reputable LDS. I could buy exactly what I lost - if I get it grey market from Leisurepro. But I don't think I'll do that.

I"m considering sucking it up and chalking up the difference in cost to an expensive lesson, and depreciation of gear that has seen roughly 400 dives. But I might send the boat owner a detailed list of the lost gear with the MSRP for each item so he can see just how short of the mark his figure is. Or I might see if our homeowners insurance will cover it.

I posted this because I wanted to see what other divers thought. The folks at my LDS are adamant that the dive op is responsible for replacing my gear. I wanted to get a few more opinions before I decide what to do.

 

[raviepoo]

So, you're not telling Where this happened, much less with Whom...?!

It happened in the US.

I don't want to name the dive op. They were nice to me, took responsibility, and ended up taking a big loss. I don't want to injure them. So no, I'm not naming names.

I do think this thread is useful as a lesson to other divers who might be on vacation, get a little too relaxed, and let thier vigilance drop. No one ever gets to secure my gear again unless I am there to approve what they do. I don't care if I annoy them, freak them out, or make them uncomfortable. If I had followed my impulse to haul the whole rig to a safer area of the boat this sad tale would never have been told.

 

[raviepoo]

If I were to take that kind of trip and incur that kind of expense I'd be sure to do my homework first. Web site, pics, opinions of divers who have used the op, and a clear written understanding of what I was contracting.

Yeah, I did all that stuff, as I always do. I read and heard a lot of good things about the operation. When I got to my destination I met another diver who told me that:

1 - She had been diving with the boat in question for over a decade;
2 - She wasn't diving with them this time around because they messed up her reservation in a particularly sloppy and inconsiderate way;
3 - The crew that had been with the boat for years had recently left;
4 - She would never consider diving with them again.

A dive op is only as good as it's crew. All the research I did was relevant to a crew that was no longer there. Things change. Research only goes so far. Ask two divers about the same boat and you can end up with widely different opinions.

You live. You learn. You know? Nobody is omniscient. Anyone who thinks they can be fully in control of every single situation they face in life has some tough lessons ahead.

 

[DandyDon]

It's good to share the experience so we can learn from it, but we want to help you, too. Good that the Op has agreed to make amends...!!

The boat owner offered to reimburse me for the lost gear, but not at MSRP. I might make an issue about it, because the figure he calculated would not allow me to buy fully warrantied gear from a reputable LDS. I could buy exactly what I lost - if I get it grey market from Leisurepro. But I don't think I'll do that.

No MSRP is too high.

Any good dive shop will give you a package discount - the best will match LP's prices with full warranty. Scubatoys.com here in Texas will always meet or beat LP, and there are others.

Glad to see we're approaching a happy ending for you. Coulda' been worse.. :shakehead

 

[IceIce]

In Asia, it's a very common practice that the boat crew assemble the gear for you, but it's optional, you can do it yourself, they only try to provide good service and be helpful. Sometimes, I was in the situation where rejecting their help would make me and them feel bad, so i just accept it, but I observe and make sure everything is right because I'm more familiar with my gear.

The situation you describe, that it's a policy that you shouldn't go to the dive deck, I guess the mistake would be theirs, because you followed the boat rules, and it's clear that your gear was under their responsibility because of the rule they set. I've never been in the boat with that rule actually, it's kind of funny because it gives them more trouble and responsibility. I dove with a boat whose boat crew would advice us to sit on the passenger seat, but they give us time to check on our gear before it departed to the dive point or from times to times when we need to adjust/check something we forgot.

I guess you are right to treat them that way. It's an accident, I'm sure they don't mean it. If it happens in Asia, it would be worse, because most of the DM/boat crew don't make much and usually they are genuinely helpful. But I understand your lost.
Try to see what can they do, and since you said your equipment have seen 400 dives,
it shouldn't be too bad although you can't replace it with something similar from the compensation they gave you.

Grey market? I'm not sure what does it mean? Do I have it here?

Anyway, good luck and kudo to your understanding. You know, although my opinion is like above, I'm not sure I can take it as well as you and putting yourself in their shoes.
Again, kudos.

 

[deepdiver4]

never use that charter again sometime on the boats they hire a lot of drunks and they say oh im a dive master but then you ask them a simple ? ang they give you somekind of off the wall answer im not sayen all are like that so don't take this in the wrong way look into the charters at your LDS before you book a charter and never let some one set your gear up after all this is your life support my 2cents