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Last week I spent a lot of deco time hanging on an ascent line and wishing I were doing a drifting ascent. My buddy was just above me. Just below me was a solo diver. I had a lot of time to stare at his tank analysis sticker, which was not far from my face, and saw that he was diving air. I did not see him on the wreck itself, so I don't know his maximum depth. My maximum depth was 203 feet. My buddy and I had 18/45 in our tanks.

During that time I thought about some of the discussions that have been going on in this forum, and I am reminded of this now as I read this thread. In the dives I have been doing over the past few weeks, I have shared boats with a number of divers diving deep air. Some of them are TDI or IANTD instructors. The solo deep air diver I stared at for so long is an instructor who works for a dive shop. I know some of the divers on those boats went beyond 190 feet on air on some dives. The different boats from which I dived all were obviously used to people diving deep air.

I am not a deep air advocate myself, but the past few weeks have taken me out of my sheltered mix-only tech training and shown me that it is really pretty darn common in some parts of the tech world.

That, of course, does not make it a good idea, but it does indicate that it is a real part of the technical diving world. I get a sense that some people in the Tek-2-Tek community would not see it that way and would like to have such people and such discussions banned if they could. I may not want to dive deep air myself, but I think we have to recognize the fact that it is a choice that some highly qualified and experienced people make routinely. One may get tired of deep air debates, but I think we have to recognize that this is not some renegade position taken by whackos who have no idea what they are doing but it is instead a position taken by people with respectable diving backgrounds.
 
And that doesn't really blow me away. But I wonder if the tune would change if we were talking about a 50m or 60m dive?

IMO there's a huge difference between diving to 40m on air in a remote area where helium isn't available as an experienced diver, and the course outline I posted above.


Totally. But my point was that sometimes GUE are highlighted as being very rigid - yet I don't believe that they are.

Solo diving was discussed fairly extensively in my Tech 1 class, for example. Typically along the lines of "If you were solo diving, you probably wouldn't do it this way...".
 
John, most of us don't have a problem when someone choses to dive air to _____ (fill in blank). Its the boasting about their tough guyness which is completely BS (and scientifically disproven). "Narcosis management" is the agency version of Arnold Schwartzenegger tech diving. Pump U up to dive deep air! That is just crap plain and simple. Seems that people boast about their tolerance to narcosis when they didn't accomplish anything else on their dives. The ones who come back with pictures, video or survey information tend to be proud of the fruits of their labors regardless of gas breathed.
 
According to the standards, "This Narcosis Management course is taught on air to better prepare divers for Trimix diving which requires the use of less forgiving helium based gases. Good buoyancy control, gas switches, and run times are best learned while diving air."

This was PSAI's answer to tech training long before Andrew G penned the DIR-F course in his parents' living room.

Today, PSAI divers are encouraged to take narcosis management measured by tracking DATA (Depth, Air, Time, Awareness) at the level to which they wish to dive such as advanced nitrox (150 feet) or extended range (180 feet).

Certifications end after that. Courses are experience only to demonstrate the effects of narcosis in a controlled environment. No chest beating. Just education. Do I agree with it? Not so much. But, then again, I've never been so I have an open mind to its value for some divers.
 
According to the standards, "This Narcosis Management course is taught on air to better prepare divers for Trimix diving which requires the use of less forgiving helium based gases. Good buoyancy control, gas switches, and run times are best learned while diving air."

This is one (of several) places where PSAI is out of date. Trimix is not "less forgiving" than air, that is an urban myth. I have listed Rubicon citations here before on this matter. Yes if you dive 100/100 Buhlmann tables without the fudge factor of GF your probably/more likely going to get bent. That is a function of that particular model setup fitting air better than say 21/35 trimix. But it doesn't mean trimix is less forgiving. In fact people are putting helium in their deco gases now, heavens!

I am not sure which "Narcosis Management course" you are refering to, but people don't have enormous heartburn over 40m = AN/DP with the other mainstream agencies type things. Fine whatever, not that big a deal. Promoting 50, 60 and 70m air diving by offering "courses" in it is crap.

In a nutshell:

  1. Ditch the "management" term its scientifically indefensible. Rename those "entry deco" or whatever.
  2. Ditch deeper half of the air diving to at least be reasonably consistent with common sense. Which you seem to acknowledge already with your own 180ft limitations.

Lastly, you asked for feedback, but are spending an awful lot of time defending PSAI in this thread...
 
According to the standards, "This Narcosis Management course is taught on air to better prepare divers for Trimix diving which requires the use of less forgiving helium based gases. Good buoyancy control, gas switches, and run times are best learned while diving air."
I think some of the objection to PSAI's stance on this may come from the wording directly on their website:

PSAI Narcosis Management® is our signature course.


This was PSAI's answer to tech training long before Andrew G penned the DIR-F course in his parents' living room.

Today, PSAI divers are encouraged to take narcosis management measured by tracking DATA (Depth, Air, Time, Awareness) at the level to which they wish to dive such as advanced nitrox (150 feet) or extended range (180 feet).

Certifications end after that. Courses are experience only to demonstrate the effects of narcosis in a controlled environment. No chest beating. Just education. Do I agree with it? Not so much. But, then again, I've never been so I have an open mind to its value for some divers.
This isn't clear on the website. It appears that you can be certified to dive up to 240' on air from the website.

PSAI is the only agency offering Narcosis Management® training down to 240 feet (73 meters). It is taught in six different depth levels, allowing the diver choice of training depth. This Narcosis Management® course is taught on air, to better prepare divers for Trimix diving which requires the use of the less forgiving helium based gases.

You mentioned a Sport Trimix program but I can't find a course description of that. If it allows the use of Trimix down to 150', how does that reconcile with the idea of needing to take an air class to 240' to prepare you for less forgiving helium based gasses.

I'm not slamming you here, but since you wanted feedback I'm pointing out what appears to be inconsistencies with what you're stating to us and what PSAI appears to be offering.
 
I think some of the objection to PSAI's stance on this may come from the wording directly on their website:

This isn't clear on the website. It appears that you can be certified to dive up to 240' on air from the website.

You mentioned a Sport Trimix program but I can't find a course description of that. If it allows the use of Trimix down to 150', how does that reconcile with the idea of needing to take an air class to 240' to prepare you for less forgiving helium based gasses.

I'm not slamming you here, but since you wanted feedback I'm pointing out what appears to be inconsistencies with what you're stating to us and what PSAI appears to be offering.

John, the Sport Trimix course isn't complete yet. Here is the current outline for classes I'm conducting. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE DEEP AIR TO 240 FEET. PSAI never required that for training. It was required that PSAI students be certified as Advanced Nitrox and suggested that they be Narcosis Mgt. Level III 150 feet for entry level trimix training to 200 feet. PSAI, TDI, and IANTD used to require advanced nitrox and extended range before trimix training. Now, the current landscape says divers should be able to avoid deep air diving if they so choose for trimix training within the mainstream tech agencies. Most still demand advanced nitrox/deco prior to trimix. This program is designed for the "air scared" to choose mix training in place of advanced nitrox. Since the course isn't in print, standards may change in the final product.

Dive 1: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Instructor will demonstrate proper and thorough technical dive planning.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Instructor will demonstrate pre-dive safety checks.
3. Skills Review: Skills performed while carrying a single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent
B) Frog Kick
C) Modified Frog Kick
D) Flutter Kick
E) Modified Flutter Kick
F) Shuffle Kick
G) Modified Dolphin Kick
H) Helicopter Turns
I) Backward Kick
J) Fundamental 5 - reg clear, reg exchange, mod S, mask clear, mask remove/replace
K) S-Drill
L) Valve Drill
M) DSMB Deployment
N) Time-controlled gas sharing ascent
4. Debrief - Instructor conducts post dive debrief.

Dive 2: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Instructor and students plan dive as a group.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students will conduct pre-dive checks with instructor feedback.
3. New Skills: Skills performed while carrying a single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent while performing Fundamental 5
B) Bottle passing drill
C) Pocket contents drill
D) Deploy back-up light
E) Primary mask exchanged for back-up mask
F) Valve drill with flooded mask
G) Valve drill without mask
H) S-Drill with flooded mask
I) S-drill without mask
J) DSMB deployment without mask
K) Two divers no mask ascent while sharing gas
L) Remove and replace SCUBA at the surface
M) Tired diver/active victim tow - student 1
4. Debrief - Instructor and students debrief dive as a group

Dive 3: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Instructor and students plan dive as a group.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students will conduct pre-dive checks with instructor feedback.
3. New Skills: Skills performed while carrying a single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent
B) Bottle passing drill during time-controlled movement
C) Weaker skill development
D) Skills practice
E) Tired diver/active victim tow - student 2
4. Debrief - Instructor and students debrief dive as a group

Dive 4: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Instructor and students plan dive as a group.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students will conduct pre-dive checks with instructor feedback.
3. New Skills: Skills performed while carrying a single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent while performing Fundamental 5
B) Bottle passing drill
C) Weaker skills development
D) Skills practice
E) Suppine skills (tanks facing bottom)
F) Perpendicular skills (left and right side facing bottom)
4. Debrief - Instructor and students debrief dive as a group

Dive 5: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor feedback.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students will conduct pre-dive checks with instructor feedback.
3. New Skills: Skills performed while carrying a single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent while performing bottle passing drill
B) Use of primary line
C) Touch contact drill
D) No mask touch contact drill
E) Bottle passing drill
F) Bottle drop
G) Right post fixable failure with line
H) Left post fixable failure with line
I) Right post non-fixable failure with line
J) Left post non-fixable failure with line
K) Bottle pick up
L) Proper gas switching procedure
M) DSMB deployment
N) Time-controlled ascent
O) Unconscious diver rescue
P) Passive victim tow - student 1
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor feedback

Dive 6: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor feedback.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor feedback.
3. New Skills: Skills performed with single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent (post failures on the move)
B) Stage bottle fixable failures
C) Reel and line work
D) Wing/BCD failures
E) Bottle passing drill
F) Buddy breathing from back gas
G) No mask buddy breathing
H) Remove and replace SCUBA underwater
I) Left post roll-off of donor during gas share
J) Gas switching
K) Deco bottle failure
L) Back gas failure
M) Buddy breathing from deco bottle
N) Unconscious diver rescue while buddy breathing from deco bottle
O) Passive victim tow - student 2
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor feedback

Dive 7: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Instructor and students plan dive as a group.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students will conduct pre-dive checks with instructor feedback.
3. New Skills: Skills performed while carrying a single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent (post failures on the move)
B) Bottle passing drill
C) Weaker skills development
D) Skills practice
E) Toxing diver rescue - student 1
4. Debrief - Instructor and students debrief dive as a group

Dive 8: Critical Skills Training (20 - 60 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Instructor and students plan dive as a group.
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students will conduct pre-dive checks with instructor feedback.
3. New Skills: Skills performed while carrying a single deco bottle.
A) Time-controlled descent (post failures on the move)
B) Bottle passing drill
C) Weaker skills development
D) Skills practice
E) Toxing diver rescue - student 2
4. Debrief - Instructor and students debrief dive as a group

Dive 9: Decompression Diving Practice (80 - 100 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor feedback
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor feedback
3. Skills: Skills performed with single deco bottle
A) Normal descent rate
B) Students dive their plan
C) Instructor may initiate various failures
D) Call dive on planned bottom time
E) Gas switch
F) Execute planned deco schedule
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor feedback

Dive 10: Decompression Diving Practice (80 - 100 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor feedback
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor feedback
3. Skills: Skills performed with single deco bottle
A) Normal descent rate
B) Students dive their plan
C) Instructor may initiate various failures
D) Call dive on planned bottom time
E) Gas switch
F) Execute planned deco schedule
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor feedback

Dive 11: Decompression Practice (80 - 100 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor feedback
2. Pre-Dive Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor feedback
3. Skills: Skills performed with single deco bottle
A) Normal descent rate
B) Students dive plan
C) Gas consumption rate baseline is calculated
D) Back gas non-fixable failure
E) Out of gas emergency to gas switch
F) Proper gas switch
G) Deco gas failure requiring lost gas schedule
4. Students debrief dive with instructor feedback

Dive 12: Decompression Practice (80 - 100 feet)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor feedback
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor feedback
3. Skills: Skills performed with single deco bottle
A) Normal descent rate
B) Students dive their plan
C) Instructor may initiate various failures
D) Call dive on planned bottom time
E) Gas switch
F) Execute planned deco schedule
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor feedback

Dive 13: Decompression Dive Triox 30/30 with 50% Deco (100 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive on their own without instructor feedback
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks without instructor feedback
3. Skills: Instructor observes
A) Normal descent
B) Execute dive plan
C) Execute deco plan
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor feedback

Dive 14: Decompression Dive Triox 30/30 with 50% Deco (100 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students and instructor plan dive as a team
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students and instructor perform proper pre-dive checks
3. Skills: Instructor is part of the team
A) Team performs normal descent
B) Team executes the dive plan
C) Team executes deco plan
4. Debrief - Team debriefs dive

Dive 15: Triox 25/25 with 100% oxygen (100 - 130 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor as team member
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor as team member
3. Skills:
A) Normal descent
B) Execute dive plan on back gas
C) Execute deco plan on oxygen
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor as team member

Dive 16: Triox 25/25 with 100% oxygen (100 - 130 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor as team member
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor as team member
3. Skills:
A) Normal descent
B) Execute dive plan on bottom stage
C) Execute deco plan on oxygen
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor as team member

Dive 17: Triox 21/35 with 50% deco gas (130 - 150 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor as team member
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor as team member
3. Skills:
A) Normal descent
B) Execute dive plan on back gas
C) Execute deco plan on Nitrox 50
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor as team member

Dive 18: Trimix 18/45 with 50% deco gas (150 feet of water)

1. Dive Planning - Students plan dive with instructor as team member
2. Pre-Dive Safety Checks - Students perform pre-dive checks with instructor as team member
3. Skills:
A) Normal descent
B) Execute dive plan on back gas
C) Execute deco plan on Nitrox 50
4. Debrief - Students debrief dive with instructor as team member

Written Examinations: Students must score 80% or better.
 
Trace, let me know when you schedule that thing for. I'm doing tri this summer anyway, but the additional kicks and drills seem interesting.
 
Seems fairly comprehensive.

Any particular reason dives 13&14 are with 50% and dives 15&16 (deeper) are with oxygen?

If I were planning those dives, I'd likely reverse the deco gas selection.
 

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