New PSAI Programs

[Cave Diver]

In January, I beta-tested a new PSAI Sport Trimix program which will allow students who have completed the Advanced Buoyancy course to choose to move to trimix rather than air and nitrox for dives to 150 feet. The gas mixtures allow for 18% to 40% oxygen in the back gas and up to 100% oxygen in the deco gases.

Trace, what are the pre-requisites for this course. I'm not familiar with the PSAI training programs, so not sure what Advanced Buoyancy entails. Is that the only requirement? Minimum number of dives? Any other requirements.

It does seem kind of a mixed signal to teach a sport version of trimix for dives up to 150' and also to teach narcosis management classes for deeper air dives.

Congratulations on the new position. I hope this position will allow you to bring positive things to their training program.

 

[rjack321]

So, deep air diving is okay as long as the organization calls it something else?

Its scientifically proven that people cannot acclimatize to narcosis. Claiming that you're teaching people to "manage" it is a lie. Maybe they can fumble through gas-time-depth with sufficient repetition but that is not management.

While you're at it, disallow 3-4min bottom time dives in courses those are rediculous. If that's all someone is taught to do in class in theory that is all they are qualified to do. 100m on air for 3mins, that's some sort of 1980s relic you read about in Caverns Measureless to Man.

I can't comment on instructor QA for PSAI but at least agencies like GUE and UTD are actually revoking instructor credentials even if it takes a bad class or 2 to figure it out. Many agencies don't seem to bother beyond slapping some wrists no matter how many standards are violated.

 

[ucfdiver]

James,

PSAI doesn't support solo diving. PDIC does. According to Panos GUE honors solo diving cards for the reason that if GUE doesn't honor theirs they won't honor GUE's. Or, would you consider that name-dropping? I love to solo dive. If I didn't, I'd just become a GUE instructor. I like the freedom to choose to dive when, how, and with whom (or not) I want to dive. Sometimes that's in a team with DIR protocols and sometimes that's alone. I have always supported a diver's right to choose what tools or philosophies he or she wants to follow.

I really resent your post.

Trace,

Not sure what the difference is between PSAI and PDIC is. All I know is on psai's website here-
PSA International - Advanced &amp
The following is posted:

Narcosis Management

PSAI Narcosis Management® training, the best in the world, has you perform only the underwater skills that relate to the actual real world of diving, keeping up with Depth, Air, Time and Awareness (DATA). You must become comfortable and competent with the mental and motor skills at each training depth before training down to the next level. The training you receive in this course, which covers equipment selection and configuration, dive planning and gas management, buddy awareness and dive execution is applicable to all levels of diving. Any diver, regardless of certification level from Open Water through mixed gas closed circuit rebreather will benefit from this course. PSAI is the only agency offering Deep Air training awareness down to 73 meters ~ (240 feet) taught in six levels. There are currently only ten instructors world wide qualified to teach to level VI.
Level I 30m (100') Level II 40m (130') Level III 46m (150')
Level IV 55m (180') Level V 61m (200') Level VI 73m (240')

I think you have a very interesting position stating that you would be a GUE instructor if it wasn't for Deep Air and Solo Diving. I bet we could run to DUI court and find a bunch of drunks who would serve as president of MADD if they didn't drink and drive, too. Anyways, glad you enjoy the freedom to choose, I just hope these freedoms don't cost the rest of us freedom to dive sites after a death.

For what it's worth, I really resent your posts bringing deep air and solo diving to the public forums, too.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Rob,

I really have a lot of respect for you and the fact that you were a PSAI instructor caused me to look into the organization. When I did my crossover, Gary Taylor contacted my references and my instructors and instructor trainers. While I think every agency should demand in-water evaluation, doing that impressed me compared to one popular tech organization you mentioned that just wanted my credit card.

I understand what you're saying. I didn't think the crossover process for that agency was much better, but they did at least require completion of their online standards orientation and some face to face time in addition to that, at least with me. My wife also crossed over as a cavern instructor and they wanted verification that she had completed an internship to become a cavern instructor.

Here's the real deal as you and I both know it. Every agency suffers from quality control problems. An agency like PADI makes every instructor get in the water, yet PADI is often the butt of Internet jokes. GUE is known for quality control, yet GUE instructors have taught many bad classes and some have been dismissed. All other agencies fall somewhere in the middle. An agency is only as good as its people. PSAI took a chance on you and from my experience watching you teach, chose a quality instructor.

Yes, no agency is immune from having problems. Have you heard about PADI's new Tech IT program that's supposed to be unveiled soon? I can cite issues with each of the agencies I've had experience with. My problem isn't so much with the way I crossed over to PSAI. At the time, I was already an IANTD instructor and Gary, coming from IANTD, is very familiar with the process to become an IANTD instructor. My issue is more with PSAI making tech/cave instructors out of non-instructors. AFAIK, it is pretty much an industry standard that tech/cave instructors gain some experience as recreational instructors first and tech/cave instructor candidates must complete at least a couple of internships for each class they are going to teach (I know of one exception with one agency for one instructor level). PSAI seems to be more interested in making instructors than holding to these agency standards. But with making very few instructors in the past 20 months...

I didn't know you had left the organization, I kind of had you in mind as one of the PSAI instructors who could help with improving that quality-control.

It was something I've been struggling with for several months. I like Gary and he did have enough confidence and open mindedness to grant a waiver for me to teach all my classes in sidemount. But I couldn't justify continuing to pay the annual instructor fee with no return. In 18 months, I've put through 2 PSAI cards, and ironically, they were Twinset Diver cards! Then the book and instructor thing pushed me to make my decision to not renew.

As for the book, I know the story and when it comes out I think you'll feel slightly differently. Once it's published let's discuss it.

Just the fact that someone with maybe a couple dozen dives in sidemount is putting the book together makes me not want to buy it. I think I know what you're hinting at, and if I'm right, I won't feel different. We can take this to PM, e-mail, or even the phone if you like, but it's not something I'm willing to discuss even here.


Trace, I have a lot of respect for you and do hope you the best. I really do hope you can have a positive impact on PSAI. Drop me a line or give me a call - 850-272-7484 - if you want to discuss things further.

 

[PfcAJ]

Trace,

Not sure what the difference is between PSAI and PDIC is. All I know is on psai's website here-
PSA International - Advanced &amp
The following is posted:
I think you have a very interesting position stating that you would be a GUE instructor if it wasn't for Deep Air and Solo Diving. I bet we could run to DUI court and find a bunch of drunks who would serve as president of MADD if they didn't drink and drive, too. Anyways, glad you enjoy the freedom to choose, I just hope these freedoms don't cost the rest of us freedom to dive sites after a death.

For what it's worth, I really resent your posts bringing deep air and solo diving to the public forums, too.

THAT is comic gold!

Btw, this is just a little hunch I have, but I would be willing to bet a dollar that if a GUE instructor was solo diving, GUE wouldn't like it too much, regardless if they had a "solo diver" card in their wallet or not. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think it works like that.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Trace,

How many of the "new" instructors for PSAI in the last 12 months did not have to do any type of IDC?

Just wondering because if an organization simply allows instructors to "crossover" from another agency with no in water and in session training, then I fail to see where the "difference" will come from for the PSAI program. It would simply be a "rebrand" of another agency's training program, wouldn't it?

Joe, I'm willing to bet most, if not all, of PSAI's US instructors crossed over without an IDC. Like I stated in my previous post, Gary Taylor, PSAI President, came from IANTD. He's familiar with their standards and procedures and in crossing over IANTD instructors he knows what they've been through. Is that rebranding? On the surface it is. I know I didn't have to do any in-water time for my TDI crossover, but I did at least have to complete their online crossover course and sit in a classroom for about 4 hours to learn about TDI and its philosophy. After being a PSAI instructor for over 18 months, what do I know about the agency? Not a whole lot. I also do know other PSAI instructors that crossed over as a favor (at least from what they told me) and have yet to put through a PSAI certification. I just couldn't justify the annual fee.

From what I do understand about PSAI, it has more of a presence overseas. It seems to have more of a presence in the Asian and Eastern European countries. That's probably where you'll find most of the PSAI IDCs.

 

[rjack321]

I can't believe ANY agency would cross-over an instructor without interning at least one class and a day+ of IDC in-water time. I have a pretty good bachelor's degree (and a MS), but I wonder if MIT, Harvard, or Stanford would let me do a paper cross-over??

Probably not, but I bet the online Medical Diploma Institute of Belarus would give me a degree based on "experience"! :mooner:

No wonder agencies are worthless letters (except for a few). No training of the trainers in the first place, no QA, and no discipline for crappy ones. Take instructor money and student money to issue $0.02 worth of embossed plastic. My Starbucks gold card is worth more.

 

[AndyNZ]

Btw, this is just a little hunch I have, but I would be willing to bet a dollar that if a GUE instructor was solo diving, GUE wouldn't like it too much, regardless if they had a "solo diver" card in their wallet or not. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think it works like that.

I can't really comment on the solo diving aspect, but I can comment (albeit second hand) on the deep(ish) air view that GUE has of it's instructors.

I used to be in partnership with a GUE instructor (Jamie Obern in NZ) who (according to him) had a conversation with JJ about the inavailability of nitrox and trimix here in NZ.

Alledgedly, when JJ realised the ridiculousness of the situation basically said "just dive air, it's not that big a deal".

I think, but don't quote me on it, that the conversation was around dives in the 30-40m range. It was also some time ago, so the situation may have changed. I am also no longer in business with Jamie, so haven't really had an update.

I don't think GUE is quite as rigid as we beleive.

 

[PfcAJ]

And that doesn't really blow me away. But I wonder if the tune would change if we were talking about a 50m or 60m dive?

 

[ucfdiver]

I can't really comment on the solo diving aspect, but I can comment (albeit second hand) on the deep(ish) air view that GUE has of it's instructors.

I used to be in partnership with a GUE instructor (Jamie Obern in NZ) who (according to him) had a conversation with JJ about the inavailability of nitrox and trimix here in NZ.

Alledgedly, when JJ realised the ridiculousness of the situation basically said "just dive air, it's not that big a deal".

I think, but don't quote me on it, that the conversation was around dives in the 30-40m range. It was also some time ago, so the situation may have changed. I am also no longer in business with Jamie, so haven't really had an update.

I don't think GUE is quite as rigid as we beleive.

IMO there's a huge difference between diving to 40m on air in a remote area where helium isn't available as an experienced diver, and the course outline I posted above. 240ft HAS killed people, and will kill people in the future until dollar chasing instructors and agencies stop teaching it.

Also, for context, let's remember JJ's comments here weren't directed towards *training*, but rather experienced divers at a remote site.