New PSAI Programs
- Thread starter Trace Malinowski
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We're all human, the reality is that expectations have and will continue to vary in time and space.
Regarding ENDs
40m ok depending on the circumstances, I'm not the scuba police, people are adults. But the >180ft stuff on air is just unjustifiably stupid to encourage and promote in an official capacity. Every other agency has realized this and reduced their ENDs from what they were ~10yrs ago, e.g. TDI and extended range. To claim that you're teaching people to "manage" 50m+ of ENDs in 3 or 4min dives is just a lie.
OP
Let me take a step back before this becomes another deep air thread, and tell you guys why I chose to join PSAI.
I love PDIC! I have had a long history with both the organization and the Murphy family and they both are very dear to me. Some of the instructors in the DIR world you hold in high regard started their professional careers as PDIC instructors. I live 25 minutes from PSAI headquarters. My first open water course was PDIC and PDIC was the organization through which I first became an instructor. I literally grew up at headquarters and to compare the diving industry to organized crime, my knowledge of the industry where the bodies are buried, and what not, would be like what the adopted son of a New York mobster would know about what really goes on behind the scenes of the city.
Without getting into the whole history of early diver training, after Frank Murphy returned from his tour with the 101st Airborne in WW II, he began diving, and became a YMCA instructor in one of the original classes. His wife, Doris, ran aquatics programs for the YWCA, YMCA and had one of the first televised exercise shows after Jack Lalane. They ended up purchasing PDIC in the 70's after PDIC split from NASDS as the Professional Diving Instructors College and became a "Corporation".
Frank lost his battle to cancer a couple years ago, and while Doris is still going strong physically (she's in amazing shape and health for a woman her age!) you can imagine how time affects one's ability to perform office work and oversee an international training agency with speed, accuracy, and quality control. Due to the size of the organization, the amount of work, the economy, and a small office staff, Mel Murphy, Frank and Doris' only son is stretched a bit thin.
Many PDIC instructors have found it difficult getting materials on time. C-cards used to show up accurately in days and now the wait is a lit longer and cards are often inaccurate. As a professional, it becomes tiresome putting all one's energy into teaching and then struggling to get much needed materials and C-cards. Things are dead in the water right now.
I thought about quitting teaching. But, I love this sport and love sharing my passion for it and all the knowledge I've gained as a student, diver and industry insider over the years with anyone who wants to talk diving, take a class, or go diving. Each day, I continue to learn new things, forget others, change and adapt to the way we live our lives and run this industry. Whenever I talk to students about quitting, the feedback I get is to stay at least to teach one more class, etc.
I teach for the divers and the students I love. It really pisses me off when someone like James even drops the accusation that I'm somehow selling out or selling something. If I had half a brain, I'd walk away from most of you assholes tomorrow and make money at a real job. Unfortunately, I don't, so I'm staying with diving - because I love it.
So, where to go to get quality training materials for my students?
GUE? While I really admire GUE for how they've changed the industry, I really can't see myself doing nothing but teaching GUE-F for the next decade. I was tempted because then I could combine the quality I hope every class I teach holds with the quality reputation of GUE. But, there seems to be a very high burnout rate in GUE among instructors. I don't know if it's due to the slow advancement, the daily operation of the organization, or just after a while, DIR becomes too much or too restrictive? I know how much I love to get away from diving and divers and just go be by myself in a world that I love. I wouldn't want my solitude taken away nor make sneak solo dives against the policies of the organization. I completed my internship with Bob skill wise, but we mutually decided I wouldn't be happy at GUE. Doug Mudry and I had a similar discussion.
UTD? Andrew invited me to join the first UTD class. My mother had a bad car accident and was hospitalized with injuries to her heart so I decided not to attend the first UTD ITC. I like the energy behind Andrew and UTD. I also think UTD is less dogmatic and even if I had to quit solo diving to promote the organization, enough is going on to keep me excited.
Of course, any DIR involvement takes away my ability to teach anything, but the way the current standards or memo says it has to be done and I can't be my own special little rainbow.
NAUI? The shop I was working at was NAUI and my instructor crossover would have consisted of a "ditch and don" and then the paperwork to be a recreational instructor. At Beneath the Sea they had nothing at their booth, not even a business card between Tim O'Leary and the other NAUI rep. I was interested in NAUI and was willing to jump through any hoops despite how I felt NAUI treated Andrew. (This interest was before Andrew started UTD) and at the time 2 NAUI cave instructor friends both were disappointed with NAUI's lack of technical training materials. I was still good to go for a crossover with Tim or any other tech instructor trainer and whatever courses I needed to take, but never got a call or E-mail regarding a NAUI career after giving them my info at the show.
SDI/TDI? I crossed over at Beneath the Sea because the owner of the shop I was working at wanted TDI classes. I actually like the guys from SDI/TDI/ERDI a lot. I think Steve Lewis is a great guy, as is Steve Moore, and I know Brian Carney and Sean Harrison from RSTC meetings. I like SDI's solo program and dealing with SDI/TDI is always professional and pleasant. I like the fact that standards are flexible and instructors are encouraged to teach above standards. But, I really dislike the fact that with SDI you need to be attached to a dive shop. That's a deal-breaker for SDI being my sole career support. I am at the mercy of shop owners. I enjoy being part of SDI/TDI though and I'm still active.
IANTD? Maybe once Tom and Patti Mount have finished proceedings. Swimming from one sinking ship to one that's taking on water isn't one's best option. I hated mediation in martial arts so I'm probably not the kind of instructor Tom wants. I still can't move that pencil with my mind. However, if I can fail Jedi 101, but pass IANTD instructor 101, then maybe?
ANDI? The agency never really jumped out.
SSI? Not even on the radar for more than just shop affiliation requirements.
PADI? Only to "sell out" and go "live the dream".
SEI? Really respect SEI, but no tech program. Might become an SEI instructor just cause I respect the guys in charge. FYI Walter and James.
IDEA? I like the family, but I don't really see much difference between what's happening at PDIC now and what might be around the corner for IDEA.
NASE? Not really established and don't know much about them.
UDT? Don't really like the fact that they sort of stole the letters we associate with frogmen.
PSAI ... oh, geez, not the deep air guys! Well, if Rob Neto is a PSAI instructor and Steve Gerrard, how bad can they be? First, there were materials for just about everything. The cave and wreck manuals really were good. Using cave techniques for wreck diving? I do too! A Technical Emergency Accident Manual? Awesome! This kind of thing is exactly what I want my students to have! As an instructor, I didn't and don't agree with all of the info in every manual, few of us ever do, but it was a start. I decided to pick up PSAI for the materials - especially since I didn't have to do any deep air diving to become an instructor. Also, I was impressed that Gary took the time to call around and search around the Internet for info about me before crossing me over.
I don't agree with administrative crossovers, but such crossovers happen every day. When SDI first started you could crossover by mail. On one hand, the organization is saying that we respect the training agency that certified you and we respect that you are a professional and we believe we have something to offer you if you jump on board. How many of us who are tech instructors picked up SDI/TDI because it was easy then found things we liked about TDI and have renewed since? I found that to be the case with PSAI. On the other hand, getting in the water, says, "We want to make sure you can dive and teach for quality control ..." With only PSAI and SDI doing administrative crossovers, obviously the problem of quality control is a lot bigger than 2 agencies with all the problems facing the industry.
I was thinking solely about maintaining an instructor status with PDIC, PSAI and SDI/TDI. But, decided that I could make the greatest difference by accepting a larger position. Already, another agency has a course in which precision skills are part of an advanced buoyancy course. My goal is to begin changing diver training to rethink the open water course programs of all agencies to a more fundies/essentials type curriculum. If I go to GUE or UTD, I'll be preaching to the choir on that. I'd rather address a different population.
Next, a Sport Trimix course is under final development. So, now "the deep air agency" is allowing divers a choice and access to all the tools they'll need to dive anywhere. That's also a plus, isn't it?
Also, I believe in air diving to 130 feet in caves and 150 feet in open water. I think with the rising costs of fuel and gases, more divers will choose to start diving air between 100 and 150. I'm surprised that recreational divers go to 130 on walls every day safely without training, but technical divers seem to get wiggy about it despite far more training and experience. Of course, many online critics have never been to 130 or 150 on air. Yet, they'll drink a Corona or two and drive home.
While air is debatable to 150 since most every TDI and IANTD tech diver has been there without thinking much about it, after that it becomes something more cautioned. Anyone who has done an extended range course with IANTD or TDI know that you really feel the narcotic effect and it's no question trimix is radically different.
I think divers should have access to the tools to dive in these shallower tech ranges and air is a safe tool in many cases. Trimix is better, but not always available. I'm not a big fan of extended range. Others from TDI and IANTD are totally fine with extended range dives from 150 to 180. Cave standards of all agencies, PSAI included, follow the 130 air/END max rule.
The PSAI Narcosis Management program began as a way of attempting to make trimix diving safer by first doing dives on air to develop the skills needed to dive a less forgiving helium gas. Level III is 150 and PSAI recommends divers be educated about how the deep air diving had been done to make their advanced nitrox dives safer.
Level IV is an attempt to add additional training to the extended range program. I don't have my manual with me, but I believe 150 or 180 is the maximum depth at which a diver is certified for deep diving using air. After that, you are not certified and diving is not suggested outside of the experience of the training environment.
I have no problem with that since it is merely adding experience and training to programs that are already prevalent in the diving world teaching advanced nitrox and air to 130, 150, and 180.
180 is the deepest I've been on air. After that, "thar be dragons" for me. After 180 feet, PSAI instructors will teach people for the experience. I have issues with this program myself, but it is above my pay grade so to speak and definitely beyond my experience.
I hope to be instrumental in the future in redefining the mission and goals of the program and the agency. I would also like to teach solo for PSAI, but that might be "too dangerous" for the organization.
So, we all choose our risks. Personally, I believe 150 is deep enough on air, but I enjoy cave diving alone as much as in a team.
With PSAI, I also managed to make the configuration standards more appropriate for those of us who don't like bottles on the right, but what I do like is the option to put one there if it serves a safe purpose.
I'm surprised divers want agencies to define their choices rather than allow them to choose based upon their experience, needs, location, and mission parameters. After 30 years of experience, I like choices.
Is PSAI 100% everything I want it to be? No. Some things I won't be able to change. Some things I may be able to change. I chose to work full-time in diving or rely solely upon doing what I love to earn money. Right now, I'm going to give this position a chance and see what happens. Just like all of you in your careers, I don't agree with everything that comes from higher up and as a board member I'll lose battles. But, those battles are ones I'd rather be waging trying to make a difference in the things that I believe in about diving and enjoy.
What I teach and how I teach it remains the same as does the way I dive. Now, my students can get a C-card in 3 days completed correctly rather than 3 months later with errors. However, with many PDIC instructors having crossed over to PSAI, I'm still surrounded by quality guys.
Gary wants PSAI to become the agency for the true explorer. I'm on board with that. I think that's a good goal. Giving divers information for all aspects of the sport and being able to dive with a "full toolbox" of information is pretty cool.
I love PDIC! I have had a long history with both the organization and the Murphy family and they both are very dear to me. Some of the instructors in the DIR world you hold in high regard started their professional careers as PDIC instructors. I live 25 minutes from PSAI headquarters. My first open water course was PDIC and PDIC was the organization through which I first became an instructor. I literally grew up at headquarters and to compare the diving industry to organized crime, my knowledge of the industry where the bodies are buried, and what not, would be like what the adopted son of a New York mobster would know about what really goes on behind the scenes of the city.
Without getting into the whole history of early diver training, after Frank Murphy returned from his tour with the 101st Airborne in WW II, he began diving, and became a YMCA instructor in one of the original classes. His wife, Doris, ran aquatics programs for the YWCA, YMCA and had one of the first televised exercise shows after Jack Lalane. They ended up purchasing PDIC in the 70's after PDIC split from NASDS as the Professional Diving Instructors College and became a "Corporation".
Frank lost his battle to cancer a couple years ago, and while Doris is still going strong physically (she's in amazing shape and health for a woman her age!) you can imagine how time affects one's ability to perform office work and oversee an international training agency with speed, accuracy, and quality control. Due to the size of the organization, the amount of work, the economy, and a small office staff, Mel Murphy, Frank and Doris' only son is stretched a bit thin.
Many PDIC instructors have found it difficult getting materials on time. C-cards used to show up accurately in days and now the wait is a lit longer and cards are often inaccurate. As a professional, it becomes tiresome putting all one's energy into teaching and then struggling to get much needed materials and C-cards. Things are dead in the water right now.
I thought about quitting teaching. But, I love this sport and love sharing my passion for it and all the knowledge I've gained as a student, diver and industry insider over the years with anyone who wants to talk diving, take a class, or go diving. Each day, I continue to learn new things, forget others, change and adapt to the way we live our lives and run this industry. Whenever I talk to students about quitting, the feedback I get is to stay at least to teach one more class, etc.
I teach for the divers and the students I love. It really pisses me off when someone like James even drops the accusation that I'm somehow selling out or selling something. If I had half a brain, I'd walk away from most of you assholes tomorrow and make money at a real job. Unfortunately, I don't, so I'm staying with diving - because I love it.
So, where to go to get quality training materials for my students?
GUE? While I really admire GUE for how they've changed the industry, I really can't see myself doing nothing but teaching GUE-F for the next decade. I was tempted because then I could combine the quality I hope every class I teach holds with the quality reputation of GUE. But, there seems to be a very high burnout rate in GUE among instructors. I don't know if it's due to the slow advancement, the daily operation of the organization, or just after a while, DIR becomes too much or too restrictive? I know how much I love to get away from diving and divers and just go be by myself in a world that I love. I wouldn't want my solitude taken away nor make sneak solo dives against the policies of the organization. I completed my internship with Bob skill wise, but we mutually decided I wouldn't be happy at GUE. Doug Mudry and I had a similar discussion.
UTD? Andrew invited me to join the first UTD class. My mother had a bad car accident and was hospitalized with injuries to her heart so I decided not to attend the first UTD ITC. I like the energy behind Andrew and UTD. I also think UTD is less dogmatic and even if I had to quit solo diving to promote the organization, enough is going on to keep me excited.
Of course, any DIR involvement takes away my ability to teach anything, but the way the current standards or memo says it has to be done and I can't be my own special little rainbow.
NAUI? The shop I was working at was NAUI and my instructor crossover would have consisted of a "ditch and don" and then the paperwork to be a recreational instructor. At Beneath the Sea they had nothing at their booth, not even a business card between Tim O'Leary and the other NAUI rep. I was interested in NAUI and was willing to jump through any hoops despite how I felt NAUI treated Andrew. (This interest was before Andrew started UTD) and at the time 2 NAUI cave instructor friends both were disappointed with NAUI's lack of technical training materials. I was still good to go for a crossover with Tim or any other tech instructor trainer and whatever courses I needed to take, but never got a call or E-mail regarding a NAUI career after giving them my info at the show.
SDI/TDI? I crossed over at Beneath the Sea because the owner of the shop I was working at wanted TDI classes. I actually like the guys from SDI/TDI/ERDI a lot. I think Steve Lewis is a great guy, as is Steve Moore, and I know Brian Carney and Sean Harrison from RSTC meetings. I like SDI's solo program and dealing with SDI/TDI is always professional and pleasant. I like the fact that standards are flexible and instructors are encouraged to teach above standards. But, I really dislike the fact that with SDI you need to be attached to a dive shop. That's a deal-breaker for SDI being my sole career support. I am at the mercy of shop owners. I enjoy being part of SDI/TDI though and I'm still active.
IANTD? Maybe once Tom and Patti Mount have finished proceedings. Swimming from one sinking ship to one that's taking on water isn't one's best option. I hated mediation in martial arts so I'm probably not the kind of instructor Tom wants. I still can't move that pencil with my mind. However, if I can fail Jedi 101, but pass IANTD instructor 101, then maybe?
ANDI? The agency never really jumped out.
SSI? Not even on the radar for more than just shop affiliation requirements.
PADI? Only to "sell out" and go "live the dream".
SEI? Really respect SEI, but no tech program. Might become an SEI instructor just cause I respect the guys in charge. FYI Walter and James.
IDEA? I like the family, but I don't really see much difference between what's happening at PDIC now and what might be around the corner for IDEA.
NASE? Not really established and don't know much about them.
UDT? Don't really like the fact that they sort of stole the letters we associate with frogmen.
PSAI ... oh, geez, not the deep air guys! Well, if Rob Neto is a PSAI instructor and Steve Gerrard, how bad can they be? First, there were materials for just about everything. The cave and wreck manuals really were good. Using cave techniques for wreck diving? I do too! A Technical Emergency Accident Manual? Awesome! This kind of thing is exactly what I want my students to have! As an instructor, I didn't and don't agree with all of the info in every manual, few of us ever do, but it was a start. I decided to pick up PSAI for the materials - especially since I didn't have to do any deep air diving to become an instructor. Also, I was impressed that Gary took the time to call around and search around the Internet for info about me before crossing me over.
I don't agree with administrative crossovers, but such crossovers happen every day. When SDI first started you could crossover by mail. On one hand, the organization is saying that we respect the training agency that certified you and we respect that you are a professional and we believe we have something to offer you if you jump on board. How many of us who are tech instructors picked up SDI/TDI because it was easy then found things we liked about TDI and have renewed since? I found that to be the case with PSAI. On the other hand, getting in the water, says, "We want to make sure you can dive and teach for quality control ..." With only PSAI and SDI doing administrative crossovers, obviously the problem of quality control is a lot bigger than 2 agencies with all the problems facing the industry.
I was thinking solely about maintaining an instructor status with PDIC, PSAI and SDI/TDI. But, decided that I could make the greatest difference by accepting a larger position. Already, another agency has a course in which precision skills are part of an advanced buoyancy course. My goal is to begin changing diver training to rethink the open water course programs of all agencies to a more fundies/essentials type curriculum. If I go to GUE or UTD, I'll be preaching to the choir on that. I'd rather address a different population.
Next, a Sport Trimix course is under final development. So, now "the deep air agency" is allowing divers a choice and access to all the tools they'll need to dive anywhere. That's also a plus, isn't it?
Also, I believe in air diving to 130 feet in caves and 150 feet in open water. I think with the rising costs of fuel and gases, more divers will choose to start diving air between 100 and 150. I'm surprised that recreational divers go to 130 on walls every day safely without training, but technical divers seem to get wiggy about it despite far more training and experience. Of course, many online critics have never been to 130 or 150 on air. Yet, they'll drink a Corona or two and drive home.
While air is debatable to 150 since most every TDI and IANTD tech diver has been there without thinking much about it, after that it becomes something more cautioned. Anyone who has done an extended range course with IANTD or TDI know that you really feel the narcotic effect and it's no question trimix is radically different.
I think divers should have access to the tools to dive in these shallower tech ranges and air is a safe tool in many cases. Trimix is better, but not always available. I'm not a big fan of extended range. Others from TDI and IANTD are totally fine with extended range dives from 150 to 180. Cave standards of all agencies, PSAI included, follow the 130 air/END max rule.
The PSAI Narcosis Management program began as a way of attempting to make trimix diving safer by first doing dives on air to develop the skills needed to dive a less forgiving helium gas. Level III is 150 and PSAI recommends divers be educated about how the deep air diving had been done to make their advanced nitrox dives safer.
Level IV is an attempt to add additional training to the extended range program. I don't have my manual with me, but I believe 150 or 180 is the maximum depth at which a diver is certified for deep diving using air. After that, you are not certified and diving is not suggested outside of the experience of the training environment.
I have no problem with that since it is merely adding experience and training to programs that are already prevalent in the diving world teaching advanced nitrox and air to 130, 150, and 180.
180 is the deepest I've been on air. After that, "thar be dragons" for me. After 180 feet, PSAI instructors will teach people for the experience. I have issues with this program myself, but it is above my pay grade so to speak and definitely beyond my experience.
I hope to be instrumental in the future in redefining the mission and goals of the program and the agency. I would also like to teach solo for PSAI, but that might be "too dangerous" for the organization.
So, we all choose our risks. Personally, I believe 150 is deep enough on air, but I enjoy cave diving alone as much as in a team.
With PSAI, I also managed to make the configuration standards more appropriate for those of us who don't like bottles on the right, but what I do like is the option to put one there if it serves a safe purpose.
I'm surprised divers want agencies to define their choices rather than allow them to choose based upon their experience, needs, location, and mission parameters. After 30 years of experience, I like choices.
Is PSAI 100% everything I want it to be? No. Some things I won't be able to change. Some things I may be able to change. I chose to work full-time in diving or rely solely upon doing what I love to earn money. Right now, I'm going to give this position a chance and see what happens. Just like all of you in your careers, I don't agree with everything that comes from higher up and as a board member I'll lose battles. But, those battles are ones I'd rather be waging trying to make a difference in the things that I believe in about diving and enjoy.
What I teach and how I teach it remains the same as does the way I dive. Now, my students can get a C-card in 3 days completed correctly rather than 3 months later with errors. However, with many PDIC instructors having crossed over to PSAI, I'm still surrounded by quality guys.
Gary wants PSAI to become the agency for the true explorer. I'm on board with that. I think that's a good goal. Giving divers information for all aspects of the sport and being able to dive with a "full toolbox" of information is pretty cool.
Trace, I've never met you, but I have a great deal of respect for you from what you have written in various places over the last few years. We have some different opinions on things, but each of us has a right to his own opinion.
It is clear you may have an uphill row to hoe in your new role. I wish you all the best, and hope you will bring your apparent integrity to an agency which sounds like it could use more.
It is clear you may have an uphill row to hoe in your new role. I wish you all the best, and hope you will bring your apparent integrity to an agency which sounds like it could use more.
OP
Rob, I'll look into those matters and take your suggestions to Gary.
- Messages
- 13,512
- Reaction score
- 10,182
- Location
- Port Orchard, Washington State
- # of dives
- 1000 - 2499
Funny how this whole rambling post is about how you don't have and don't want to have good standards.
You can teach good buoyancy, trim, SMBs and the other basic 5 (or 6) via PADI. Peter Guy does it quite well and his motivations to create the best recreational program he can are actually working - despite(?) issuing PADI cards.
You want to recreate GUE-F or Essentials with your own brand because you just can't quite commit to telling people to skip the deep air or not advertising the solo diving.
You can teach good buoyancy, trim, SMBs and the other basic 5 (or 6) via PADI. Peter Guy does it quite well and his motivations to create the best recreational program he can are actually working - despite(?) issuing PADI cards.
You want to recreate GUE-F or Essentials with your own brand because you just can't quite commit to telling people to skip the deep air or not advertising the solo diving.
ucfdiver
Contributor
I read through that entire post and the ONLY thing I saw you list as a positive about PSAI were their training manuals. Did I miss something?
OP
Not true. I have very high standards of diving performance. I don't believe any training agency should lord over a diver after training. Training is about education, information, and skill development. I do not believe that training agencies should take away one's freedom to use education as one sees fit.
I think the skills Andrew first put together that became the DIR-F course are the skills that open water divers from all agencies should have today and in the future. These skills should replace current open water course curriculum as the industry standard for future diver training.
I believe that advanced nitrox, deco, and extended range training is complimentary to triox and trimix training.
OP
LiteHedded
Contributor
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