An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[crofrog]

I will see if I can find it, but there's a video of a "tech diver" who always had a snorkel with him and there is video of him doing a simulated OOA where his long hose got stuck in the snorkel and in the attempt to fix it (poorly by rushing) he pulled his mask off his face enough to flood it. Have that happen at 60m on air when your buddy really needs it while you're "not narced" and let us know how it goes.

That's one of the reasons I refuse to entertain mask mounting a camera, even though it seems like a convenient way to capture footage for debriefing.

 

[rddvet]

That's one of the reasons I refuse to entertain mask mounting a camera, even though it seems like a convenient way to capture footage for debriefing.

Agree. I guess that's at least better than the regulator mounted camera I've seen. Though thank god I've never seen one stupid enough to use it on a long hose. But I'm sure some moron has

 

[rddvet]

You guys amuse me with your incessant braying about things you(most) have only only a theoretical understanding of.

So does that mean you ignore the people who have actually done those dives on air and understand the negatives of doing them on air? Because a few of us have said we've done it at one point or another.
We've all done stupid things. Here's my example: My wife and I went out with a tech charter in the keys many, many years ago when we knew nothing of tech diving. We were the only idiots on the boat without doubles, ccr, or long hoses. We weren't familiar with the wreck or the currents. We didn't even know anything about dive planning. We just went and did an air dive to 140ft on a ripping current wreck. We were forced to go down current at the start of the dive and had to work extremely hard against the current to get back to the mooring line. We both hit the mooring line at 120ft with about 1000psi. We also had a good 12+ minutes of deco according to our OW style computers. We both surfaced with about 300psi if that in our tanks. It was stressful, stupid, and clearly very dangerous. But we also realized how stupid we were and it was what lead us towards technical diving and training to do those dives as safely as we possibly could.
I'm sure the response will be that we just went and did a dive as opposed to "working up" to avoid narcosis so it doesn't count. But the main point I'm making is many of us here have done dumb or dangerous s--t, but we chose to learn from it. Much of that was listening to others here who have made similar mistakes. So you say people are braying but only have a theoretical understanding. You don't actually know that to be true. That's just one of many examples I've experienced over the years that has shaped my diving and desire to dive as smartly and safely as possible. I just don't share those things regularly with strangers here. I'm sure it's the same for many of the people who are simply seeing people making what by current standards is deemed a subpar way to dive and are simply trying to be helpful so either those doing those dives or people reading about them don't kill themselves.

 

[Boarderguy]

So does that mean you ignore the people who have actually done those dives on air and understand the negatives of doing them on air? Because a few of us have said we've done it at one point or another.
We've all done stupid things. Here's my example: My wife and I went out with a tech charter in the keys many, many years ago when we knew nothing of tech diving. We were the only idiots on the boat without doubles, ccr, or long hoses. We weren't familiar with the wreck or the currents. We didn't even know anything about dive planning. We just went and did an air dive to 140ft on a ripping current wreck. We were forced to go down current at the start of the dive and had to work extremely hard against the current to get back to the mooring line. We both hit the mooring line at 120ft with about 1000psi. We also had a good 12+ minutes of deco according to our OW style computers. We both surfaced with about 300psi if that in our tanks. It was stressful, stupid, and clearly very dangerous. But we also realized how stupid we were and it was what lead us towards technical diving and training to do those dives as safely as we possibly could.
I'm sure the response will be that we just went and did a dive as opposed to "working up" to avoid narcosis so it doesn't count. But the main point I'm making is many of us here have done dumb or dangerous s--t, but we chose to learn from it. Much of that was listening to others here who have made similar mistakes. So you say people are braying but only have a theoretical understanding. You don't actually know that to be true. That's just one of many examples I've experienced over the years that has shaped my diving and desire to dive as smartly and safely as possible. I just don't share those things regularly with strangers here. I'm sure it's the same for many of the people who are simply seeing people making what by current standards is deemed a subpar way to dive and are simply trying to be helpful so either those doing those dives or people reading about them don't kill themselves.

What you and your wife did was stupid, as you so pointed out. 140, in current, no prior experience at that type of depth, and nobody guiding you. I've done equally stupid. I bounced 170 on a single 119 but had a scooter, a pony, and knew the area above it. 170 wasn't the plan but that's what we did since the mooring line we were dropping had been moved from 135 to 170. We learned and accepted our errors and haven't repeated them. We have now both gone to two main tanks (doubles/SM) and carry a deco bottle.

I'm not, nor have I, discounted the benefits of trimix. I simply and vehemently state it's not the only option for those who wish to avoid paying out the ass for a single dive. And narc is a bit nice one you learn your style and ease into it (again I've never stated i don't get narc'd but that I'm not heavily affected by it).

 

[lermontov]

I dislike so many aspects of the "this is the only way" crowd that I'm not going entertain it. It's stupid to be that arrogant and self righteous when there are multiple proven ways to accomplish similar goals.

I think youve got a blind spot here- Im not GUE diver yet I agree with many of the things they do -
without trying to belittle you're achievments you need to think about what people are trying to tell you without looking at it through the GUE lens.

Heres my take on it - the further you go away for a straight forward AOW dive with a bit of deco where the risk factors are minimal and the problem solving options are wider ie theres a lot more margin for error. The more you need to tilt the scales in your favour.

The more demanding and 'serious' the dive becomes the options get narrower simply because the consequences of a stuff up can be catastrophic. Small details matter. -One think Ive learned is that when your undertaking a pinnacle drive or certainly anything below 60m (or a big overhead dive) you dont want any doubts or issues to follow you. Simple stuff like my hose routing gear set up etc.making sure my reel is working properly etc. All that stuff that is just annoying at 30m but can take away your mental focus on other dives that demand 110%

I dont know what your experience threshold is but if you look at other divers on their journey you can see 'where theyre at' and know you where once were they are . But bear in mind while we think were making progress theres also someone ahead of us looking back at us trying to advise.

Eliminating narcosis and reducing gas density is easily managed, gear set up, gas mixes - all easy to manage, what isn't so easy is mental strength, and if you get into trouble at depth and youve got 6 things to deal with the last thing you want is to be stressed and narced

 

[Boarderguy]

I think youve got a blind spot here- Im not GUE diver yet I agree with many of the things they do -
without trying to belittle you're achievments you need to think about what people are trying to tell you without looking at it through the GUE lens.

Heres my take on it - the further you go away for a straight forward AOW dive with a bit of deco where the risk factors are minimal and the problem solving options are wider ie theres a lot more margin for error. The more you need to tilt the scales in your favour.

The more demanding and 'serious' the dive becomes the options get narrower simply because the consequences of a stuff up can be catastrophic. Small details matter. -One think Ive learned is that when your undertaking a pinnacle drive or certainly anything below 60m (or a big overhead dive) you dont want any doubts or issues to follow you. Simple stuff like my hose routing gear set up etc.making sure my reel is working properly etc. All that stuff that is just annoying at 30m but can take away your mental focus on other dives that demand 110%

I dont know what your experience threshold is but if you look at other divers on their journey you can see 'where theyre at' and know you where once were they are . But bear in mind while we think were making progress theres also someone ahead of us looking back at us trying to advise.

Eliminating narcosis and reducing gas density is easily managed, gear set up, gas mixes - all easy to manage, what isn't so easy is mental strength, and if you get into trouble at depth and youve got 6 things to deal with the last thing you want is to be stressed and narced

I appreciate your input and perspective. My experience is 25 years diving actively. I'm in the water weekly here and average a sub 45m dive twice a month. I've worked up to the style of diving I do now and have expanded my equipment to accomplish them. I'm now exclusively using double 100s with a 40 of 50% every dive. For years leading up to this change I had a back mounted pony set up for me and me only. Going into the 35m range with an occasional 45/50m meant I was short on gas for any kind of bottom time and the deco needed + reserves. Easy math, just needed to have the desire for that load on my back.

My mindset is simple. I'm methodical and calculated. I'm a Marine veteran and not many things rattle me. I dive with enough gas to deal with things and not be concerned about it. And again, all my dives are OW. Caves and confined spaces are not my jam. Hit the trigger, go up the hill, clear my 30 min of deco and go home.

 

[NothingClever]

I just recently got AOW, DPV, and nitrox…

…braying about things you(most) have only only a theoretical understanding of.

Well, dang it…

I’m going to give you an A+ for confidence. You’ve got balls as big as basketballs to come into the Technical Forum and vehemently extol the legitimacy of deep air with divers who are actually trained to conduct technical dives. However, you’re surpassing confidence and drifting into delusional bravado to claim others only have a theoretical understanding.

So, A+ for confidence but you earned an F for judgment.

You’ve been diving for 25 years but only recently pursued your Advanced OW and Nitrox training. Not only have you dissipated your credibility in this thread but you’ve secured this year’s nomination for the poster child of Normalization of Deviance.

I do hope you get your act together and get some proper training besides the Advanced Bro Tech Pretend Course.

I challenge you to share this thread with your wife, let her read it and then simply ask for her thoughts.

You might consider shifting into lurk mode here in the Technical Forum.

 

[Blackcrusader]

We were the only idiots on the boat without doubles, ccr, or long hoses. We weren't familiar with the wreck or the currents. We didn't even know anything about dive planning. We just went and did an air dive to 140ft on a ripping current wreck. We were forced to go down current at the start of the dive and had to work extremely hard against the current to get back to the mooring line.

See here's the thing. My BSAC instructor in the 1980's would take us to a wreck dive site. If the dive had ripping currents we would either not do the dive, or instead of fighting against current back to the mooring line, simple ascend with the current pop our DSMB and have the boat pick us up.

Simply you should have ended the dive and not gone to 140 feet and into deco where you said you had 12 minutes of deco time, and all of this in a ripping current. Maybe you forgot the basic commonsense not to continue with a dive you were struggling with in the first place. I've seen this in Maldives with a newly minted DM and his GF with 25 dives who just followed what her BF did. Did not end in disaster but the DM had to share air from a guide to get him to a deco stop. He was removed from our group.

If I go on a dive I don't fight against the currents. Maybe I'm older and wiser lol Thing is though I go to dive in ripping currents in Lombok. I call these adventure dives.... Only 21% there and no chambers nearby,... dive at your own risk of course. The hammerhead cleaning station is at 50m in strong currents. It's a blast and by the time you are on the surface the boat if far far away still at the site where you started the dive from. Good thing my dive torch is very powerful and the boat captains can see if quite easily.

I'm happy you promote the trimix option for the OP and for others. As I get older I plan not to do too many deeper than 45m dives on air. Maybe a scooter is a good idea for diving against ripping currents?

 

[Blackcrusader]

For years leading up to this change i had a back mounted pony set up for me and me only. Going into the 35m range with an occasional 45/50m meant I was short on gas for any kind of bottom time and the deco needed + reserves. Easy math, just needed to have the desire for that load on my back.

For when you need to have enough gas

 

[Boarderguy]

Well, dang it…

I’m going to give you an A+ for confidence. You’ve got balls as big as basketballs to come into the Technical Forum and vehemently extol the legitimacy of deep air with divers who are actually trained to conduct technical dives. However, you’re surpassing confidence and drifting into delusional bravado to claim others only have a theoretical understanding.

So, A+ for confidence but you earned an F for judgment.

You’ve been diving for 25 years but only recently pursued your Advanced OW and Nitrox training. Not only have you dissipated your credibility in this thread but you’ve secured this year’s nomination for the poster child of Normalization of Deviance.

I do hope you get your act together and get some proper training besides the Advanced Bro Tech Pretend Course.

I challenge you to share this thread with your wife, let her read it and then simply ask for her thoughts.

You might consider shifting into lurk mode here in the Technical Forum.

You're right, because when I got screwed by a local agency in 2001 I just didn't go back to any cert card clown show. I did my AOW classroom locally back then and my dives in Guam. Upon returning they refused to accept the signed log book with instructor number on each dive. The only reason I bothered with the certs now is because they're required for some ops around here and my instructor friends signed me off upon hearing that. I give zero Fs about cert cards because they aren't worth the digital paper they're printed on. Training and knowledge are far more valuable, but you're a card carrying **** and can't see past that. So kudos to you for trying to shıt on someone who has done the training, has read the books, but hasn't given up the $$ you have for the same thing.