NACD Instructor standards violation

[victorzamora]

With what? More rumors? More animosity? More divisiveness? Many in the cave community have this malignant lust to be "in the know". It's like they derive some power or pleasure from finding all the dirt, real or imagined, on as many people as they can. Then they go around, with that knowing look, that is based mostly on fabrication, innuendo and distorted second/third party accounts, and give those rumors legs. This a sixth grade mentality. I refuse to form my opinions based on such hearsay and and other peoples' hostility. Moreover, I refuse to feed the machine generating that crud. Let me be the first to point out that the 'machine' isn't on the internet.

Pete, you're one of the people perpetuating this rumor that someone is "out to get Rob." I've asked you via PM as well as in public who you could be talking about. I've even given you a list of the "usual suspects" that get blamed for "going after" Rob and very logically clear reasons whey they're certainly not going after him. Heck, I was accused of joining forces with a diver I've met exactly once (and have no particularly positive feelings for) to mastermind Rob's expulsion. That, to me, is as hilarious as it gets. Well, got. All of your talk of "FUDDD" and rumors being bad and how awful people are for starting and perpetuating them......YOU are one of the culprits of spreading the rumor that Rob is being railroaded/attacked for personal reasons. WHO is doing so? This is the worst kind of rumor, as it's been (in my mind) proven to be hilariously ignorant.

 

[tbone1004]

just wait until the report is released, I have a feeling it will answer all of your questions.

 

[The Chairman]

Pete, you're one of the people perpetuating this rumor that someone is "out to get Rob."

Rail against me all you want, I'm not going to satiate your lust for knowing 'who'.

When I see an accident on the side of the road, the facts stand for themselves: there's been an accident. Since I'm not a busy body and have no desire to glom off of someone else's pain, I don't feel a need to rubberneck. Consequently, I have no idea who caused the wreck and I simply am OK with my lack of knowledge in that regard. According to your reasoning then, I am spreading a rumor that an accident even happened only because I don't know who caused it and refuse to give you a name. Poppycock. The timing and the lack of facts in this case are more than enough evidence to me that Rob is being railroaded. That's deductive reasoning on my part and has nothing to do with the rumors you enjoy so much. You'll just have to invent your rumors without my help.

 

[nakatomi]

Pete, you're one of the people perpetuating this rumor that someone is "out to get Rob." I've asked you via PM as well as in public who you could be talking about. I've even given you a list of the "usual suspects" that get blamed for "going after" Rob and very logically clear reasons whey they're certainly not going after him. Heck, I was accused of joining forces with a diver I've met exactly once (and have no particularly positive feelings for) to mastermind Rob's expulsion. That, to me, is as hilarious as it gets. Well, got. All of your talk of "FUDDD" and rumors being bad and how awful people are for starting and perpetuating them......YOU are one of the culprits of spreading the rumor that Rob is being railroaded/attacked for personal reasons. WHO is doing so? This is the worst kind of rumor, as it's been (in my mind) proven to be hilariously ignorant.

I totally agree with Netdoc, there are way too many rumors already, most of them complete BS, and there doesn't need to be any more of it.

I do feel that you personally play a significant part in all this. As I said before, I consider you to be an agitator in this whole mess.
You were the one who claimed to have tons of information about cave instructors violating standards. You compiled (or were given) a list of instructors and YOU were the one who contacted Jim Wyatt and Rick Murcar about it and discussed these instructors alleged violations. This was a mere two weeks before the suspension unfolded.

As to the LOG incident, it is well known who filed the LOG complaint against Rob two years ago, it was all over the CDF.

I have said it before and will say it again, the best approach would be to stop speculating and arguing NOW and wait for the results and Rick's findings to come in.

 

[Aotus]

Why in the world was this thread started? While GDI is very professional in all his posts, it seems a terrible decision that this report was published in a forum, where there are all the tools for responses like the five hundred something before this, that he must've known would get ugly. If this needed to be published when it was, it should have been as a notice on the website, a notice in a group email, or in light of technical failures on both those fronts even at the head of a CLOSED thread.

 

[karstdvr]

just wait until the report is released, I have a feeling it will answer all of your questions.

That is the thing is I don't ever think a specific report will ever be released. Since the NACD web page is unable to be accessed,I can't look at their bylaws. We will probably hear he has been removed as an instructor,but the specifics on the case,with documentation will probably always be in an executive session,not available for non-board viewing. This is not unique to the NACD.

 

[victorzamora]

Rail against me all you want, I'm not going to satiate your lust for knowing 'who'.

When I see an accident on the side of the road, the facts stand for themselves: there's been an accident. Since I'm not a busy body and have no desire to glom off of someone else's pain, I don't feel a need to rubberneck. Consequently, I have no idea who caused the wreck and I simply am OK with my lack of knowledge in that regard. According to your reasoning then, I am spreading a rumor that an accident even happened only because I don't know who caused it and refuse to give you a name. Poppycock. The timing and the lack of facts in this case are more than enough evidence to me that Rob is being railroaded. That's deductive reasoning on my part and has nothing to do with the rumors you enjoy so much. You'll just have to invent your rumors without my help.

Pete, you've attacked me personally and repeatedly when you know nothing about me. I was chided earlier in this thread for stating something as fact when I clearly called it incorrect and circumstantial. Now, here you are stating things as fact when they're circumstantial at best. You're starting rumors while chastizing anybody you accuse of starting rumors, and chastizing those you believe to enjoy rumors? Ridiculous.

Oliver, as for me "playing a significant role in all of this"....I have to say that's an interesting statement. You've told me that with under 100 cave dives that nothing I say or think matters, and you've told me that you'd never speak to me about this subject again. Yet here you are giving me credit for something well above my experience level and responding to me? One quick note: I didn't have any communication with anybody at NACD until well after all of this started, and was unaware of any accusations/rumors/etc until all of this started. So, yup....I was sneaky. Sneaky enough to have fooled myself!

 

[ofg-1]

 

[nakatomi]

One quick note: I didn't have any communication with anybody at NACD until well after all of this started, and was unaware of any accusations/rumors/etc until all of this started.

Maybe you should check your FB messages to me, especially from March 30 when you said you had been in touch with Rick Murcar about "all this", which would be the instructor violations.
You also sent me your list of NACD instructors with alleged violations, Rob was number one on that list.
Rob was suspended pretty much exactly two weeks after that.

 

[tbone1004]

how long was the investigation ongoing? Rick cited an investigation had been conducted and the decision to vote on the suspension was based on the recommendation of the investigator. Is that enough time to start an investigation on the matter and then come to those conclusions? While he may have sent a list to Rick and Rob happened to be on it, that doesn't mean that it was the reason the investigation was started or that the investigation hadn't already been in motion.