NACD Instructor standards violation

[The Chairman]

You're starting rumors

I have been accused of starting a rumor that was actually stated in the first few posts of this thread. I have only ever referred to it as being a rumor. Unlike yourself, I haven't asked for names to manufacture more rumors with. I'm just not into it. You and others restating the falsehood over and over does not make it true. No matter how much you polish that turd, it's still a turd. If your aggressive pushing of that absurd lie is any indication of your personality, then there is no wonder why many of us see you as a rumor monger and pot stirrer. With crap like this, it's no wonder the cave community is considered one of the most factious groups in diving.

 

[nakatomi]

I would blame the rapist, not the person who reported it. Who else is there to blame?

Based on the sequence of events, it's all based on hearsay. There may never have been a crime.

 

[cerich]

Based on the sequence of events, it's all based on hearsay. There may never have been a crime.

But there has been a conviction. I am not saying that the conviction is correct or just. I don't have enough information on this specific case, I am saying however that the person who reported a crime, unless they lied, is not the problem. Do you believe that Oliver lied? If yes then say so and what evidence you have. If no then stop going after him.

My understanding is he collected statements from people that had made claims, he gave them to the rightful authorities.

 

[Bennno]

...as well as a list of names that I was contacted regarding. My message was clear about who I had seen and who I had gotten reports of.

Did he agitate, heck yeah he did, but it had to be done, because otherwise the moaning would continue and nothing would be done about it.

Wow, you guys would have been amazing at witch-hunting in the dark ages. You guys would also make great gossip reporters for some magazine.

Victor, who else, I your expert opinion, are the other bad instructors? I would really like to know!

I am glad that you and tbone are here now to bring order and expertise to cave diving. How did I even survive without you guys, I don't know.

Btw: If people didn't clog up this thread with their own bs theories, the thread would probably have only 5 pages now.

regards
Bent

 

[dreamdive]

A pro po talking about rumors:

I heard Larry Green is back and wants to take over training again. Only makes sense to get rid of Rob - have to vacate the spot in order to move in ....again. Just rumor?

 

[cerich]

A pro po talking about rumors:

I heard Larry Green is back and wants to take over training again. Only makes sense to get rid of Rob - have to vacate the spot in order to move in ....again. Just rumor?

Yes. Not only has Rick posted that but Larry also told me after diving together that he doesn't want to be TD again.

 

[victorzamora]

Wow, you guys would have been amazing at witch-hunting in the dark ages. You guys would also make great gossip reporters for some magazine.

Victor, who else, I your expert opinion, are the other bad instructors? I would really like to know!

I am glad that you and tbone are here now to bring order and expertise to cave diving. How did I even survive without you guys, I don't know.

Btw: If people didn't clog up this thread with their own bs theories, the thread would probably have only 5 pages now.

regards
Bent

Bent, I don't know where this is coming from. I've always considered you a friend. And if you knew the actual sequence of events, you'd realize that gossip and "spreading expertise" isn't my intention and never has been. Believe me, I'm not out on a witch hunt. This only started because Rick Murcar and Jim Wyatt were posting about how much better their agencies were and how it's obvious that they have the answers. I messaged Rick that I wasn't a fan of the attitude and that his agency wasn't perfect, either. There was no witch hunt, no reason to ban anybody, nothing other than his need to realize that he's not perfect.

 

[bamafan]

Bent, I don't know where this is coming from. I've always considered you a friend. And if you knew the actual sequence of events, you'd realize that gossip and "spreading expertise" isn't my intention and never has been. Believe me, I'm not out on a witch hunt. This only started because Rick Murcar and Jim Wyatt were posting about how much better their agencies were and how it's obvious that they have the answers. I messaged Rick that I wasn't a fan of the attitude and that his agency wasn't perfect, either. There was no witch hunt, no reason to ban anybody, nothing other than his need to realize that he's not perfect.

Victor if you are now saying that you were never trying to spread rumors why don't you publicly post your list of crappy instructors on here that you were so proud of and were willing to send to people behind their backs. You also claimed to witness all these violations and you have less than 100 cave dives. I find it hard to believe you have seen this many standards violations in less than 100 cave dives. In fact when you were confronted and asked places, times names etc you finally admitted it was just stuff you had heard. So why don't you and your buddy Tbone man up and publicly post your list of crappy instructors.

One thing I have learned over the last year or so in cave diving is that no one is innocent if held to the same standards that you hold others. If there is one thing that P's me off more than anything is backstabbing sanctimonious people. I find it really funny that while you were talking about all these crappy instructors that one of them was Paul Heinerth and in the middle of all this crap up on Facebook pops a picture of you having dinner with him in Mayo. Did you have the guts to tell him what you were saying about him? I very seriously doubt it.

Nothing is going to change in cave diving. As it has become more popular there are more instructors and more people doing it so it will be inevitable that there are more crappy divers / instructors. If you think you can change it get active in one of the agencies and quit backstabbing from behind the scenes.

 

[Bennno]

Victor, you're not doing yourself a favor by getting into this so deeply and publicly, believe me. I don't know the sequence of events, I only go by what I read here. You wrote, that you reported stuff you heard to the nacd president... that, to me, sounds a little witch-hunty.

You have also, more than once, implied or said that there are unsafe/bad instructors, but how would you know that? These are serious accusations and they should not be publicly discussed/judged by people that have no first hand knowledge of these events. If you have seen something, then make a 'real' specific report of what you have actually seen, leave out the stuff you heard and have the people come forward that have told you these stories.

I believe that you have good intentions and want to help improve things, but all this posting is not the way to do it, it helps to form little groups. Think about how it comes across to people that read this.

 

[victorzamora]

Did you have the guts to tell him what you were saying about him? I very seriously doubt it.

Well, be ready to be surprised. I confronted TJ Dayo, Jim Wyatt, and Paul Heinerth about it. Jim Wyatt and I had a few really long talks about it all. I contacted TJ and he never contacted me back. We did, in fact, have a conversation with Paul about it. He texted us to thank us about the talk, actually.

I never bragged about a list, I mentioned that there was a long list of dive instructors that had low standards and/or that reputation. As for having seen "all of them".....you're being condescending and ignorant on purpose. I saw many violations. I spoke to several students about other violations. And the rest of the list was from people that contacted me, and were corroborated. Nobody made the list without 2 or 3 people naming the same person claiming first-hand knowledge of violations. Even then, the list never got "reported" but simply served to remind Rick and Jim that their agencies were not infallible.

Victor, you're not doing yourself a favor by getting into this so deeply and publicly, believe me. I don't know the sequence of events, I only go by what I read here. You wrote, that you reported stuff you heard to the nacd president... that, to me, sounds a little witch-hunty.

You have also, more than once, implied or said that there are unsafe/bad instructors, but how would you know that? These are serious accusations and they should not be publicly discussed/judged by people that have no first hand knowledge of these events. If you have seen something, then make a 'real' specific report of what you have actually seen, leave out the stuff you heard and have the people come forward that have told you these stories.

I believe that you have good intentions and want to help improve things, but all this posting is not the way to do it, it helps to form little groups. Think about how it comes across to people that read this.

Bent, my intention wasn't to submit a formal report. My intention was to simply ask Rick to be more realistic with his views of his agency. That was all.