NACD Instructor standards violation

[ucfdiver]

the publishing here was with regard to the NACD post, sorry for not clarifying. I still think that they need to get "up to date" with the member email.

Discussing never putting emails or putting wrong emails, CDS has a publication, it comes out to everyone, there are also ballots that go out for voting, that goes out to all members. Have the ballots request updated contact information. If they don't do it, then that's fine, you still publish on the website, but you give everyone the heads up that it is happening.

I still maintain it is easy, it's relatively complex if you don't know what you're doing, disclaimer I don't, but they have webmasters, and if small dive shops are able to maintain a list of "members" that they send email updates out to, the agencies should be able to do the same.... Cost money, sure, but when you weigh the cost of that vs. the snail mailing of ballots out to all of the members each year, I'm willing to bet that going to a web based system for org announcements and board voting is cheaper.

The one advantage to mail is that when it gets blocked due to an invalid address it's returned to you with the new forwarded address, or at the very least you're notified that it wasn't delivered so you can remove it. There are no automated spam filters in US Mail boxes.

Have you seen how few members even return the ballot? Just because you send someone a paper mail with a call to action doesn't mean it actually gets done. The reason the CDS is still voting by mail is that the bylaws state it has to be done that way IIRC. You're not dealing with an either/or situation here.

My HOA is the same way-- we're blowing TONS of money mailing out information, but we can't get enough members to even vote for a bylaw change. Heck, even marking envelopes prepaid postage doesn't result in checking yes or no and putting it in the mail.

The dive shops which are sending out mass emails are likely getting flagged as spam by a certain percentage. If it's marketing material that's fine, but when you send membership information or an official release out it's a bit more tricky than that as everyone feels their inbox is the most important one.

Have a look at constant contact (the most common email marketing tool) and their pricing. For up to 2500 people, which I believe would cover the cds, it would cost $420/year. For perspective, the entire membership fee currently barely covers the cost of printing the journal and mailing it out to each member.
Affordable Marketing Campaign Software | Constant Contact

I'm not saying getting a better handle on email publishing is a bad idea, I just think you're saying it's "easy" when realistically there are some challenges.

 

[Superlyte27]

And exactly what value did your post add?

Or yours Kate?

 

[kensuf]

I call BS on this. The users quickly ferret out these people and report them. We have all sorts of tools to prevent this very thing from happening and we use them on a continual basis.

Pete, you're not the only online forum that has a discussion board for cave diving, and there are several people here who are essentially anonymous. I stand behind my statement that without full transparency on who is posting what, this format (online message boards) lends itself to keyboard warriors.

 

[Sylvester Muller]

Eagles Nest is in a FWC hunting preserve it is staffed, mostly in hunting season by FWC officers. FWC officers can only in force statute(laws), and diving stupid(above your certification) is not against the law. FWC officers will not ask you for a c-card, they will not check c-cards. If they have to start doing that they will close the site to diving again. It is up to the cave community to self-police the site if we would like to keep access. One of the agreements that came out of the meetings(after the father and son fatality) between FWC and the NSS-CDS, IUCRR, NACD is that there too many interpretations of a cavern zone at Eagles Nest. It was agreed that to most standards it is not a cavern zone, and that everyone should be on the same page. Jeffery Dugliss and I installed a new reaper sign at the top of the solution tube to signify that once you go down the "rabbit hole" you are in the cave zone period. Mike Poucher and I also rewrote the verbiage on the big sign and added a sign that we wrote to the end of the dock. In addition we are working on diving guidelines that can be accessed via QRC code from the sign to link to recommended diving guidelines on our website. The open access allows protections under the Florida Sportsman act in addition. As I eluded to in my previous post on this thread. Eagles Nest was opened, mapped, surveyed, reopened, and kept open by volunteers of cave diving associations. So if you like access to Eagles Nest but don't need cave diving associations, keep in mind other people are pulling your weight.

 

[tbone1004]

James, appreciate the insight. Assuming $400 for easy math, and 2000 members, that's $0.20/member. According to the USPS, it is $0.26/letter/post card sent by a qualifying nonprofit organization. In theory we should get a ballot every year, so just in the stamp, they would be saving money vs. snail mail. Add in cost of the paper itself and it should be a no brainer. Now whether they could get the bylaws changed to allow that I'm not sure, but they do have an "update your information" section on the website which is handy. Just think it might be time to move into the modern age...

sorry for that sidetrack

 

[DeepSea]

Have a look at constant contact (the most common email marketing tool) and their pricing. For up to 2500 people, which I believe would cover the cds, it would cost $420/year. For perspective, the entire membership fee currently barely covers the cost of printing the journal and mailing it out to each member.

Alternatively, look at VerticalResponse; it gives non-profits 10K emails a month for $0 - Non-Profit Pricing Application | VerticalResponse

 

[karstdvr]

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Honestly, the guys I hang out with are too busy talking about diving and less time about politics. One of the owners of a better known cave diving shop and I are doing a 3 hour dive this Saturday, there's a large contingent of people heading to Belize in ten days, another group going to the DR in a month, some active exploration being conducted in a few different places, the Madison blue mapping project (and the new pressure gauge collection), Charlie Roberson is now diving sidemount, etc.

These things are more interesting to us than the agency politics.

---------- Post added June 3rd, 2015 at 09:10 AM ----------



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Couldn't agree more. I have a couple very active projects that consume all my diving time, so I am like Ken when I catch up with people I exchange notes. I never hear the drama that is talked about on the forums because this stuff only exists in the cyber world, and what doesn't exist in the cyberworld is a blipvert in a discussion. I agree with your comment about the quality of the water in the springs. The springs are dying, and with that our sport is too, so imagine if all the effort that went into these postings was used for water quality grassroot initiatives then the sport may have more of a positive future.

 

[cerich]

Couldn't agree more. I have a couple very active projects that consume all my diving time, so I am like Ken when I catch up with people I exchange notes. I never hear the drama that is talked about on the forums because this stuff only exists in the cyber world, and what doesn't exist in the cyberworld is a blipvert in a discussion. I agree with your comment about the quality of the water in the springs. The springs are dying, and with that our sport is too, so imagine if all the effort that went into these postings was used for water quality grassroot initiatives then the sport may have more of a positive future.

funny, i normally hear more gossip and crap when in cave country than online. In fact that was one reason I go to Mill Pond more now. That said, the last CDS conference was a welcome change and very upbeat.

 

[Hetland]

Your previous comments caused me to go back and read GDI's announcement. I see him announcing the resignation of three Board members, and referencing a very contentious investigation that has the agency in turmoil. I don't see any lynching by him or the NACD in that announcement and am surprised you can devine such intent from those words. It's my opinion that Rick has acted prudently by being so transparent. Now, that hasn't stopped a few misguided users from repeating and manufacturing rumors as if they were fact. It's simply not their fault.

Bull$4!^.

Google: "cave instructor suspended" and tell me what you get.
Google: "nacd instructor" and tell me what you get.

Does the NACD publish a public (searchable) report every time an instructor is suspended? If so, then I withdraw my call of Bull$4!^. If not, it stands.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

funny, i normally hear more gossip and crap when in cave country than online. In fact that was one reason I go to Mill Pond more now. That said, the last CDS conference was a welcome change and very upbeat.

As a pro figure skater my girlfriend lives in a prima donna, backstabbing, unseat you from the podium, self-centered, all about me, whiny world ... and SHE thinks cave divers are the biggest babies she's ever met.