Mares regs for deep?

[Greg Barlow]

Oh, well.......I've tried to explain the scientific procedures used in testing regs using a breathing simulator.

Does anyone really believe that Mares (with their worldwide slice of the diving market) wouldn't build an adjustable reg if they saw the need? Their subsidiary, SporaSub, which is popular in Europe and Asia has had one for years. The chunk of the pie that Mares has gained in the last 20 years is staggering considering that US Divers/Aqualung and ScubaPro had the market pretty well under their control. ScubaPro has ALWAYS made excellent regs, but in all honesty, has not pushed their other products to the extent that could easily have been done.

Deep Scuba,
Your comment about the Proton being a good reg as compared to the Akros lineage is a bit confusing. From your level of expertise, what do you think that Mares did to make it so much better?

Greg Barlow

 

[Greg Barlow]

Ed,

The mag tested my rebuilt US Divers Calypso VI balanced diaphragm reg four years ago on the ANSTI simulator. It had the smaller exhaust diaphragm that was the "standard" in that era. At the depth of 198', with a tidal volume of 2.5l, and a breathing rate of 25 breaths per minute it still meets the EN250 standards and just about meets the Navy Class "A". The WOB was at 1.6j/l and was very smooth. The venturi action of the second stage really assisted once the air began flowing.

Most of the regs we tested over the years could gain an average of .20-.30 reduction in the exhalation force needed with a larger diaphragm and smaller housing. Let's arbitrarily use the low end of 0.20. That gives us an overall rating of 1.4j/l and one in the running with today's models.

Today's smaller second stages are a compromise. First, you have a small diaphragm which automatically means you lose overall performance. Next, the housings are smaller which allows you to gain on exhalation effort due to a smaller amount of gas to expel through the valve and a shorter exhalation time period. So, you regain the amount loss with diaphragm size. Yeah, the adjustable inhalation effort works. Heck, if you set it to just short of free flowing in your mouth that would just about make it effortless. The problem is that without some type of venturi assist, the diaphragm doesn't give you a mechanical advantage. To me, the headache with the small housing is that the exhaust tees are tiny. I can't stand the jacuzzi effect that is so common with them. My Akros models use the larger tees. The Proton uses the smaller. Oh, well....The Atomic M1 went back to the larger tee for this very reason.

I have said before that regs have just about reached the end of their evolutionary path. Short of some electronics, we are now seeing about the best that physics can offer.

As far as adjustable regs go....I have owned and used many over the decades. They are handy, but when Mares regs breath so well and are very stable I don't personally feel the need for one for my own dives. Whether those dives are in a cave, wreck, or in frigid waters, my MR12's have never disappointed me or my entire family for that matter.

As far as the "Mares Club" that Deep Scuba refers to...Buy a reg that can be serviced by a reputable local tech. Take care of it as you would any other life support system. I don't care what brand it is. Read the tests from Diver and Rodale's to assist you in your purchase. The main thing is to make an educated decision, not one that is made on hearsay and what Joe Diver uses.

For what it is worth, I know many advanced divers who stick with a brand because they can service them. Mares are about the simplest to work on. That is a fact that you can ask any educated repair tech who has worked on different lines.

Greg

 

[DeepScuba]

First of all kids, I'm not Mares bashing, and if any of you guys wanted to give me an honest shake, you would have read at least once (Out of 3 or 4 times posting the same thing) you realize that I said we should differentiate between Reg you COULD use at 200ft, and ones that are propbably more prudent to use.

I also NEVER said I wouldn't use ANY Mares Reg to 200ft. In fact I quite specifically menioned a specific one, one with which I have personal experience with, that I WOULD NOT use at 200ft.

I further went on to say that one COULD use it at 200ft, but that there ARE OTHER REGS I feel that would be more prudent to use.

The above statement are honest and fair, and are in no way debateable.

Stop crying gents, I ain't Mares bashing. It's the Topic of the Thread for pete's sake!!!

No offence Greg, but Rodales has never yet met a piece of crap Reg that they didn't like.

And that's the truth buddy.

I wasted $3.50 and picked up the Nov 2003 issue.

Hmmm Top of the line regs (Over $400)

Apollo Bio A-110, Aeris Atmos Pro, Oceanic Zeta, failed miserably

Need I say more??? They hardly had the nerve to much worse than say "More laboured breathing than most in their class". And that's the worst I could find.

WHy don't they say, "it's a good enough Reg for Rec diving, but she'd be a DOG for deep stuff!" ?

Heck, for top of the line, I don't want a POS that scores that poorly in the SIM tests....which of course use a supply PSI less than 1500 PSI (As stated eariler by Greg), as it seems is becoming the standard. Good show on that one.

Oh lookie see..the Mares Proton scores well, very well.

Even more revealing.....the UNDER $300.00 Regs

ZEAGLE ENVOY scores as well as the best OVER $400 Regs.

Of note:

APEKS score very well in OVER $400.00..Scubapro is, of course, absent.

Regards

 

[DeepScuba]

Darn King buiddy I didn't mean to ignore you......

The PRO thing was ajoke pal, lighten up. Couldn't you tell??

But beyond that, I stand firmly behind the fact that no PRO is going to do any better on my Regs than I am. It just ain't so.

That myth has been beaten to death on SB over and over and over again.

As Greg himself says, Mares are about the simplest things to work on.

It's true. You'd have to want to screw it up, to screw it up.

Trust me bud, the day I say ALL INSTRUCTORS (fill in the blank) then shoot me, but before then, leave your own comments out of my posts.

Again, it's undisputable that I have met more Instructor than have never "fixed"/repaired whatever a reg, than have.

I discount useless post, and that's undeniable too!

Now try and add something to the thread except your biases into my posts.

Yes my friend, my Profile is empty. So what?

Would you rather I fill it with lies to make you feel like I know what I am talking about?? I wouldn't trust going that route myself, if I were you.

Aw Heck, I'm a DIR_STROKE, isn't that what it says?

P.S. I didn't miss any point about the Reg switch @ 110ft. I personally think it's GREAT test. WHY??

Cause it's REAL WORLD. It's then obvious to even you!!! It's a test "UNDER LOAD" in car talk, so to speak. Which is, by the way a great way to test for car engine problems too.

Just what do you think the SIM tests do in Rodales??

Try again bud.

 

[kingprawn]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
Try again bud.

Sorry SD. You obviously aren't worth my time. I simply didn't want others to mistakenly think you knew what you were talking about.

Thanks, you have done that for me.

 

[DeepScuba]

I agree.

I really don't give a rats behind if you guys wanna dive a 200ft garden hose from Home Depot !

Just be safe.

See ya.

 

[mempilot]

Haven't heard of any deep diving accidents ever due to using Mares deep.

Everyone on this board, not just this thread, needs to chill out a little. I thought us pilot's were type A's, but holy cow! I'm a diver and a pilot. Don't let ego's get in the way of what this board was designed to do - share info.

Everyone has there own favorites. That why there is more than one manufacturer. They are all good regs or people would be kicking it every day.

If you like a reg at 100', dive it in stages to deeper depths. Make up your own mind if it breaths good for you. You'll know. If you don't like it, then you step to a different reg.

I've flown all kinds of technology. It's all good, or it wouldn't be sold - in this country anyway. Remember the lawyers.

 

[Greg Barlow]

Deep Scuba,

Just to make a formal remark on the ScubaPro testing. A few months ago ScubaPro made a formal request "shall I say attorney" that ScubaLab was not to test nor report on ANY of their products in the magazine. Take that for what you want.

BTW, I do not work for the mag at this time. I haven't for nearly a year.

You need to get on the website www.scubadiving.com and read the past reports on regs if you think that they rate every "piece of crap" reg highly.

If you need some material to put you to sleep you might want to do a search under my name for some of my past Scuba Science articles. They may not be the best, but I gave 'em my all....

Best Wishes,

Greg

 

[scubafanatic]

........Hey, by the way, aren't Scubapro regs famous for 'winning' the :'who-can-stuff-the-most-parts-into-a-reg--and-make-everything-as-complex-as-possible' 'contest'?

Karl

 

[DeepScuba]

Well, my Mk2 has less parts than the Mares (V)16, and my Mk25 has more.

And my G250HP has more than the three put together!.

A point, or observation?

Funny, I can service the Scubapro's as well as I can the Mares.

Where's Genesis with his Mk10 line when you need him?