Mares regs for deep?

[Greg Barlow]

Deep Scuba,

I suggest that you have a Mares tech take a look at your regs. The only three dive mags in the world (to my knowledge) that run ANSTI testing on regs have ALL found that the MR series models meet or beat the US Navy Class "A" standards. You will probably be surprised to hear that the initial Rodale's testing on the MR12 Akros was done at ScubaPro's California plant. We paid for all testing to be completed on their new ANSTI simulators. Jon Hardy supervised all simulations while they were comleted. Now, such testing is done at DiveLab in Panama City. Also, the US Navy also found the MR12 and MR22 regs to beat their own high end standards. The MR16 wasn't tested during the last batch of testing at the Experimental Diving Unit, but its flow is right in the middle between the other two.

Insiders in the industry are often amazed that a reg as simple in design as the Mares models can match the performance of other top models.

By the way, your remark about "moving up to better options" is interesting...28 years of VERY active diving should have taught me a thing or to about regulator performance.

The MR (V)16 actually met the class "A" standards with an incoming pressure of 750psi rather than the Navy's higher standard of 1,500. If that's not performance at 198' then I don't know what is.......

I am also interested in what tweaking you have done to your wife's reg. If you want the best performance for that model, then you need to set the IP at 140-145psi and adjust the cracking pressure to 1.25". Setting the initial effort at 1.0" will likely result in free flows and do nothing for the overall breathing effort at depth.

That particular first stage will flow at around 4,500 (+-100) liters per minute. Considering that anyone's top end second stages flow at around 2,500 or so will validate that the first stage is top notch.

Also, I certainly hope that your dives to 200' aren't being done on air. If they are, I wouldn't count on you remembering much of the dive at all. Let alone the breathing characteristics.

ScubaPro makes some great regs. In fact, they too, don't make any poor choices. My point is that ALL MAJOR MANUFACTURERS make some high end models. Remember, scientific purely objective testing is the only valid information.

Greg Barlow

 

[DeepScuba]

One (or two) point(s) Greg, and then I'll have to save the rest for later.

Scientific testing is not required when it's so obvious my wife knows the difference. Trust me on that.

It's obviously more than 0.5j/l (a number I agree with).


I don't need a Mares tech to check it, the settings are easily enough understood....and yes, even in COLD water, I set the IP to 140-145PSI

The 2nd is no more than 1"

(Like I've said, I tweak it pretty high).


Again, there ARE better regs.

Again, you must discern between regs than CAN be used, and one that it would be prudent to use.

But hey, it's your wallet/life/whatever.

They'll work, I give you that. And mine work better.

Just to keep you from worrying, the "tests" (My wife taking my reg to "see" the difference) was not done at 200ft.

She can tell (And so can I, as we "switch" when she grabs mine) at depth less than 110ft.

It the same things as me being able to tell when I've forgotten to "dial up" my G250HP. I can tell before I hit the wreck that I've forgotten to turn it up. It's subtle, but it's there. It IS discernable.

 

[blacknet]

DeepScuba,

When someone states someone else said something isn't that called heresay? Seriously tho show us some proof.

Ed

 

[Greg Barlow]

Deep Scuba,

Like I said, I would have a tech work over your wife's reg. It sounds like something is not right. It could even be something like a clogged inlet filter.

Apeks did some interesting tests with their adjustable second stages. They ran simulator scores with the inhalation adjustment at the midpoint. They then used the exact same settings and opened the valve just short of a positive pressure setting. It changed a grand total of 0.2 j/l. A human wouldn't have been able to discern the difference. I will grant you that cranked down to the hardest setting is easily discernable. You are at that point attempting to overcome a lot of spring tension.

Many regs including the G250HP are typically tuned to slightly free flow with the adjustment fully out. This serves to lessen the stress on the seat while being stored. If it is opened fully while diving (in your mouth) it generally will provide positive pressure. This gives an unnatural inhalation, but some divers don't mind. I don't know if you have ever used Poseidon models before, but they are infamous for such breathing patterns. The new Xstream just borders on positive pressure and gives wonderful breathing effort. The problem is that many of these regs flutter in shallower waters. The servo valve mechanism is great when large amounts of gas are flowing, but is a bit unstable at lower demands.

Like I said, I'm not looking for an argument. Studying regs and their designs for nearly 30 years has taught me a few things or two.

Greg

 

[kingprawn]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
Why would I want a reg I had to (could) adjust under water......

Maybe he skipped that class in AOW???

heheheh

Is that question for real?

I guess we should discern between regs we "could" dive to 200ft, and ones that it would be prudent to use at 200ft.

Deep Scuba

Let see, add more tasks to an already task loaded sport, or buy a reg that properly adjusts for depth. Seems like someone sold you a bill of goods when you bought your G250HP which you forget to “dial up”. I don’t have to “Dial up” my Abyss, but I guess that was my instructor’s point. Did you miss it? They taught that in AOW, did you miss that too?

Also, it sounds like you should let a pro work on your wife’s reg.

I guess we should really discern between advice from a tech instructor with 5000+ dives, who runs a dive shop, can dive any reg he wants (SP, Apex, Poseidon, Mares, ... ), is trained in servicing them, and DeepScuba who lets his wife determine which reg is better by switching at 110 ft.

How many dives do you have? Your Profile is rather empty.

Since, I don’t know your history, I’ll trust my instructor. He’s tried the rest, and dives an Abyss.

200 Dives on mine, and I’m quite happy also.

 

[DeepScuba]

Oh boys boys boys.......

enough already.

I didn't realize I joined the Mares or bust crowd.

Forget I was ever here. Forget the actual published tests, forget that fact that anyone can discern the breathing characteristics of two diff regs.........

And they don't even have to be a diver,........it's that obvious.

Mares Proton?? Sure good reg.......Mares V16 w/XTR or Axis......fuggetaboutit.

Oh sure, you CAN breathe them, but would ya wanna if if you didn't have too? Would ya wanna if it came to two of you's on the same 1st, sucking hard???

heheheheh

Didn't Boogie just say, on anther thread.......who'd be using Mares deep anyways???

heheheh

 

[DeepScuba]

Oh, and Uh King:

I wouldn't let anyone work on my regs.

I'm the "Pro" bud

Now where's that other PRO Genesis????

(Now he's a REAL PRO).

I've seen enough "Pros" dink up a reg enogh for me to laugh whenever anyone says ........Pro...... anything.

Trust me, her Reg, adjusted to 1.25" breathes like a BRICK stuffed it your mouth.

One more thing King, you can't have a non adjustable reg "both ways". The non adjustables ones will not give you the range that an adjustable one will. It's imposssible. Ask Greg, he'll tell you.

If someone can't switch a reg at 110ft, I question their comfort in the water period. It's quite telling, as this is is real world testing, and if it's discernable to a human, it is all too real.

I also feel that I don't care if you have 5 or 5000 dives, it's got sqaut to do with the question at hand. Instructor also means jack-squat, How many Instructors do you know that can't do simple service on a reg? I know a few.

You'd think there would be some correlation, but it ain't always true, and that is evident quite quickly.

Regards fellas

D.S.

 

[scubafanatic]

Hi DeepScuba,

.......boy, you're almost as stubborn as I am!

....but before we officially declare that 'Mares Sucks', take a peek at these 2 links from Divernet:

http://www.divernet.com/gear/dtest897.htm#mares

http://www.divernet.com/gear/regs398/regtest4.htm

These 2 links test all 3 of the Mares models I own/dive (MR12 Voltrex/MR16 Voltrex/Ruby).

The only ' weakness' demonstrated was the traditional undersized OEM silicone mouthpieces, easily rectified by aftermarket SeaCure mouthpieces.

Karl

 

[kingprawn]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
Oh, and Uh King:

I wouldn't let anyone work on my regs.

I'm the "Pro" bud

Now where's that other PRO Genesis????

(Now he's a REAL PRO).

I've seen enough "Pros" dink up a reg enogh for me to laugh whenever anyone says ........Pro...... anything.

Trust me, her Reg, adjusted to 1.25" breathes like a BRICK stuffed it your mouth.

One more thing King, you can't have a non adjustable reg "both ways". The non adjustables ones will not give you the range that an adjustable one will. It's imposssible. Ask Greg, he'll tell you.

If someone can't switch a reg at 110ft, I question their comfort in the water period. It's quite telling, as this is is real world testing, and if it's discernable to a human, it is all too real.

I also feel that I don't care if you have 5 or 5000 dives, it's got sqaut to do with the question at hand. Instructor also means jack-squat, How many Instructors do you know that can't do simple service on a reg? I know a few.

You'd think there would be some correlation, but it ain't always true, and that is evident quite quickly.

Regards fellas

D.S.

DS,

You call yourself a pro, then you discount pros. Your profile is still empty, and you discount all instructors and pros based on some you’ve met. Again you completely missed the point.

Let me spell it out for you. I am talking about the recommendation of my instructor:
He has access to any reg he wants. (He sells and rents them.)
He has thousands of dives.
He has been to the Andrea Doria many times.
He chooses to dive a Mares Abyss.
I already have one, so he is not trying to sell me anything.
I have one adjusted by a “Pro” and it breaths great!

Like you, I know a few people willing to say “I’m the Pro bud”. Without knowing their experience, I ignore them. The only reason I am responding to this thread, is that I hope other people will ignore them also!

Personally, I have no problem switching regs at 110 fsw. My point (that you missed again) was that this is not a way to test regs. No two regs are going to feel the same! Switching at 110 fsw and taking a few breaths is a stupid test! Do you test drive cars by switching drivers in the middle of the freeway and driving 10 feet?

RUFUST wanted to know if anyone has experience with Mares below 130 (specifically he referred to the Abyss and the Proton). Yours comments seems to be the only negatives, and they based on your “Professional” maintenance, and “simply true” measurements.

RUFUST,
since DS is unwilling to substantiate his "Pro" status, ignore him. Stick with the Abyss.

 

[blacknet]

Hello,

There is not a single regulator on the market that's free from con's. However there are regulators that you can never go wrong with, i.e. poseidon odin, apeks tx-50/100/200, mr-22 old style non-ruby non-titanium, zegal flathead 6. If your using mix then a poseidon odin or a conshelf 14 will work great.

Ed