looking for advice with ballast on my new steel 100

[1hander]

hello all... im a %100 disabled vet ...i just got back into diving after many years because i discovered that it completely stops my chronic pain starting at 8 to 10 feet..any day i dont have to take pain killers is a great day.. and my youngest son has decided he likes it too..

ive always used aluminum 80s... i just bought my first 100 steel, i love the extra air, i love the weight of it and the fact that it doesnt want to nose me forward at the end of the dive

with the al80 i could descend with no weight (very very slowly on exhale)... but i really preferred 6 pounds of weight with just a bit of air in the bc,,,otherwise i was just too buoyant...

1. with steel tank and no weight i sink like rock...a bit of air in the bc and all is well... i remember that to be weighted properly meant that with no air in the bc and a normal breath full in my lungs i should float at about eye level at the water line... with the steel tank its just not possible(even with no weight, is this ok)

2. i use an aqualung balance back inflate bc,,,,when im floating at the end of the dive it wants to nose me forward ....is this just a matter of adding trim weight to rear at the bottom of the tank (this is w hat i remember)
or try shifting the tank lower/higher in the strap....or do i jusyt have to live with this characteristic of back inflate

excuse the dumb questions its been many years since i dove and im not sure if things are still done the same.
any advice is much appreciated

 

[runsongas]

depends. being a little bit negative is ok, but too much means you will have a larger bubble than necessary in the bc and just make it harder to control your buoyancy and trim.

lean back on the bc when you are floating at the surface.

 

[1hander]

leaning back does help for sure... i think i need to do this over with wetsuit because that will definitely change things

even though my son and i both can find neutral buoyancy...we are both badly trimmed... legs low..i hate stirring up the bottom for the guy behind me...and theres no way we will dive near any coral until we get this mastered.... so i will try the following tomorrow for both of us...to try to find horizontal trim ..........hes using a steel 80

1. move the tanks farther forward (can only go so far forward before it limits looking forward)

2. start splitting up weight into trim pockets.

 

[CuzzA]

Moving weight to the tank itself could help, but in all honesty it sounds like you're putting too much air in the BC at the surface and this is why it's pushing you forward. You only want a little air to keep your head above water. Leaning back will help.

As far as being negative with no weight, no air in bc, can you swim up your rig? Can you keep your head above water? Can you swim up your rig and then doff the bc?

If so I wouldn't worry about being slightly negative.

 

[2airishuman]

hello all... im a %100 disabled vet ...i just got back into diving after many years

Welcome back

with the al80 i could descend with no weight (very very slowly on exhale)... but i really preferred 6 pounds of weight with just a bit of air in the bc,,,otherwise i was just too buoyant...

1. with steel tank and no weight i sink like rock...a bit of air in the bc and all is well... i remember that to be weighted properly meant that with no air in the bc and a normal breath full in my lungs i should float at about eye level at the water line... with the steel tank its just not possible(even with no weight, is this ok)

The ideal amount of weight is just enough for you to maintain the desired level of buoyancy control at the end of the dive. That's the gold standard. The "float at eye level" thing more or less works but isn't perfect. Your HP100 holds almost two pounds more air, and so when your buoyancy is perfect at the end of the dive, you'll be about two pounds heavier than you used to be at the beginning of the dive.

2. i use an aqualung balance back inflate bc,,,,when im floating at the end of the dive it wants to nose me forward ....is this just a matter of adding trim weight to rear at the bottom of the tank (this is w hat i remember)
or try shifting the tank lower/higher in the strap....or do i jusyt have to live with this characteristic of back inflate

To some extent this is just a characteristic of back inflate BCs. I wouldn't add weight. You want to try to cultivate a style of floating where your feet are in front of you and you're sort of reclining into the BC rather than being vertical in the water. It may help to experiment with the amount of air you put into your BC. Some people find that they are more comfortable at the surface with less air in the BC.

 

[84CJ7]

A little more info about your wetsuit or any cold water gear would also help. I'm guessing it's almost nothing with only 6 pounds.

I dive with a 7mm wetsuit with a hood, gloves and boots and a steel tank. When I got a set of hog fins (like jet or rocket fins sorta) which are noticeably negatively buoyant I was immediately going down by the stern the second I stopped moving and rolling all over the place and I absolutely hated them. Then I dropped 2 pounds off my belt and suddenly everything is wonderful and I love the fins.
If you don't have the legs in a wetsuit to keep your bottom half floaty you will definitely want to have more neutral or even slightly buoyant fins which you may have already since that pretty well covers most recreational type or the deep 6 fins if you want more tech type. I may end up having to buy a set of the deep 6 when I go tropical on my first ever warm trip and ditch the 7mm wetsuit holding my heavy fins up in cold water.
I don't like moving the tank up and down to fix trim overly much as there is really only a small range where you can reach stuff but not get hit in the back of the head when you look up but a lot can be done with shifting trim weights.

Buoyancy and trim sucks to work out and the weirdest things totally shift it.
But as was said the biggest thing that screwed all my trim up was too much weight and all the secondary effects of it.
Don't worry about the by the book tests for proper weighting. Just use the least amount you can descend with on an almost empty tank and no air trapped in any of your gear.

 

[KevinNM]

If you have enough negatively buoyant things you'll sink. Steel tanks are generally favored by people wearing buoyant exposure suits because it means they don't have to have a heavy weight belt. If I take my LP85 rig into the pool with just a bathing suit on it would be pretty hard to swim it up from the bottom with the tanks full of air and a failed BCD. But I can walk out of the swimming pool if my BCD failed, so no big deal. But I normally dive a dry suit, so I'm far less negative then.

But be very careful diving in the ocean if you need your BCD to work in order to get back to the surface.

 

[1hander]

thanks for all the info guys..
diving as follows
no hood
xcel 3/2mm suit
2mm socks
boots
rocket 2 fins (LOL they are pigs but i love my rockets)
steel hp100
aqualung balance bcd

still dont have lights or hoods which will probly change things again..especially since i will have to find or a light i can wear on my head with no use of my left arm. or a light with magnetic switch..

i think i got it in freshwater anyway..seawater will definitely change things
i moved the tank back just far enough that i had head clearance to look up without hitting my head on the reg every time..
4 pounds soft weights on the neck of the tank
no weight in the bc pockets...

all the way to 500psi (i wouldnt dive to that psi in open water)with this setup im perfectly horizontal in the water.. with just a touch of air in the bc, bouyancy is perfect..

with no air in the bc i can still decend in a controlled manner and slow the ascent with fins or hands ...and i can still swim to the surface with very little effort..

i thought 4 pounds was quite a bit of weight...i tried 2 and 3 pounds but still sank feet first , with 4 pounds on the tank neck, i stay horizontal indefinitely..i think im happy with the trim at this point in freshwater..

i will be getting a 7mm suit because some of the places i want to dive are pretty damn cold...so i will be in the pool again for that setup..

the falling forward on the surface problem is fixed , i think it was a combination of the weight on the tank and lowering the tank just a bit in strap...with just enough ai in the bc to get my mouth above the waterline i float perfectly straight with no use of fins or hands and no need to lean back at all.

for you guys that swim alot in the ocean with steel tanks..can you give me an idea of how much more weight ill need just as a starting off point..i will say the idea of a bcd failure and not being able to surface scares the hell out of me,(especially with my kid)but as long as we maintain gear, prepare and keep a cautious approach all will be ok...if not then my number was up LOL..not trying to make light of that situation..i have lost friends to diving from silly mistakes.