Question My Wife's Rig is No Longer Balanced. How Do I Add More Ditchable Weight?

[johndiver999]

Does the undergarment float in the wash? This should not be that hard to understand/visualize?

 

[Ryan Neely]

One other thing to consider:

It’s obvious you’re worried about the additional lead you add pushing her over to an “unbalanced” configuration. What I don’t understand is: why isn’t that lead you plan on adding ditchable? I mean, if you were adding lead bolted to your back plate, or selecting unusually heavy scuba tanks (like stupid spun tanks) to add that ballast, yeah, you would have a problem. But you’re not: you’re adding it in additional lead weights.

Why not simply buy a good quality weight harness and call it a day?

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40 pounds of lead. All ditchable.


I swear I’m not going to go on my usual “make sure you actually need all that lead“ rant. And as picky as you’re being about this entire process, I assume you are being equally picky on the process of figuring out exactly how much weight you/she needs. But if by chance you are not, I just want to throw that out there: so, so many divers are diving with way, way more lead than they actually need. Doing a proper weight check with empty tanks at the surface is essential. If you can just barely sink in that configuration, you have enough lead. And make sure you do it at the end of a dive where you have moved your body around extensively, up and down through the water column. That gives you a chance to get all of the air squeezed out of your suit. If you do it at the beginning, your suit will have way too much air in it and you’ll never sink. Of course, that’s why many divers think they need more lead: they can’t sink in the beginning. But that’s a problem of getting the air out of their suit, not adding more lead. (OK, I’m stopping now: I promised this wouldn’t be a rant. )

Anyway, consider a good weight harness. It will probably solve all of your worries.

This was along the lines of what I was looking for. Yes, I do attempt to be meticulous about all of this, and finding a way to add ditchable weight while still remaining streamlined (or adding weight where she needs it to prevent pitch or roll) is of particular importance.

I had looked at the DUI harness, but I wasn't certain if it would function well under a webbing harness or if it is adjustable enough to moke the weight a bit higher on the torso without it hanging outside of the webbing parameter overly much. She definitely does not want to return to the same sagging and bulging configuration of our old Aqualung HD Pro BCD.

Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[tmassey]

I had looked at the DUI harness, but I wasn't certain if it would function well under a webbing harness or if it is adjustable enough to moke the weight a bit higher on the torso without it hanging outside of the webbing parameter overly much. She definitely does not want to return to the same sagging and bulging configuration of our old Aqualung HD Pro BCD.

I own a previous version of the classic, which is what I think I linked above. I really, really like it. When you have to carry a lot of weight, it helps to have something that’s hanging from both your shoulders and your hips, especially if you have to do any walking on the surface with it. The harness is quite configurable: you can have the weights anywhere you want up or down your torso.

There isn’t a problem with interference with your waist strap. They are really big pockets (but reasonably flat), and you will have to put them either above or below the waist strap. That’s going to be determined by how long your torso is, what kind of hips you have, where exactly your waist strap falls already, etc. But there’s plenty of configurability.

And the cool thing is, you don’t have to worry about it interfering. The pockets stick out a bit. You pull the yellow handles, and the pockets literally fall apart and the weight falls away. That gives you a lot of flexibility to where you put them: they’ll still function.

In addition, DUI makes like three different styles of this type of harness set up. I haven’t looked too closely at them, but some of them have four pockets, some of them have smaller pockets, some of them have different styles of harness, all kinds of different variation. Plus, there’s nothing magical about the DUI harness: there are other people who make similar harnesses which might give you even more flexibility and options.

A big harness like this isn’t going to completely obviate the need for trim weights in non-dumpable pockets. If you need to adjust your trim that’s what those trim pockets are for! But at that point, we’re talking about low single digits of lead. Not enough to put you into an unsafe condition, particularly if you’re dropping double digits of lead from your main harness.

Anyway, you seem to have a handle on everything. If you were looking for “blessing” to consider a harness, you now have it. In my opinion, if you need to carry double digits of lead, it’s the only way to do it.

Just make sure you actually need to carry that much lead… only then do you get the blessing.

 

[Ryan Neely]

I own a previous version of the classic, which is what I think I linked above. I really, really like it. When you have to carry a lot of weight, it helps to have something that’s hanging from both your shoulders and your hips, especially if you have to do any walking on the surface with it. The harness is quite configurable: you can have the weights anywhere you want up or down your torso.

There isn’t a problem with interference with your waist strap. They are really big pockets (but reasonably flat), and you will have to put them either above or below the waist strap. That’s going to be determined by how long your torso is, what kind of hips you have, where exactly your waist strap falls already, etc. But there’s plenty of configurability.

And the cool thing is, you don’t have to worry about it interfering. The pockets stick out a bit. You pull the yellow handles, and the pockets literally fall apart and the weight falls away. That gives you a lot of flexibility to where you put them: they’ll still function.

In addition, DUI makes like three different styles of this type of harness set up. I haven’t looked too closely at them, but some of them have four pockets, some of them have smaller pockets, some of them have different styles of harness, all kinds of different variation. Plus, there’s nothing magical about the DUI harness: there are other people who make similar harnesses which might give you even more flexibility and options.

A big harness like this isn’t going to completely obviate the need for trim weights in non-dumpable pockets. If you need to adjust your trim that’s what those trim pockets are for! But at that point, we’re talking about low single digits of lead. Not enough to put you into an unsafe condition, particularly if you’re dropping double digits of lead from your main harness.

Anyway, you seem to have a handle on everything. If you were looking for “blessing” to consider a harness, you now have it. In my opinion, if you need to carry double digits of lead, it’s the only way to do it.

Just make sure you actually need to carry that much lead… only then do you get the blessing.

I'm going to insist that we do a thorough weight check before going too insane with weight. A proper suit burp might be a part of the problem. Thanks!

 

[Rose Robinson]

I took my wife out for her first dive of the season yesterday. We were on vacation in February enjoying many tropical wetsuit dives, but yesterday was her first dive in her drysuit since October (so . . . about six months).

The conditions happened to match what I am expecting for an upcoming dive trip to Iceland, so I suggested she test out the additional undergarments we purchased for her just for this trip. "Let's do a trial run so you can decide if you need the thicker undergarments and, if so, how much weight you'll need."

For those interested in specific stats:

The undergarments layer was:
- Brynje mesh base layers (top and bottom) *NEW*
- Meriwool merino wool base layers (top and bottom)
- Fourth Element X-Core Vest *NEW*
- Fourth Element Arctic mid layers (top and bottom)
- Darn Tough merino wool base layer socks
- Fourth Element Hot Foot socks

The environment was:
- Air tenperature: 55 °F (13 °C)
- Water temperature: 40 °F (4 °C)

She dives a Halcyoon Eclipse BC with small hip weight pockets. The BC had a stainless steel backplate and we employ the stainless steel single tank adapter with the in-line weight. I also have a trim pocket installed on the cam band around the tank. We're diving Aluminum 80s.

By the time we added enough weight for her to sink and be able to stay down at twenty feet, she had thirty pounds of steel and lead strapped to her body:

- 6 pounds from the backplate
- 6 pounds from the STA and weight
- 6 pounds in each hip pocket
- 6 pounds in the trim pocket

She was able to hold her safety stop at the end of the dive at twenty feet, but she still had half a cylinder worth of gas (1,500 psi) and she reported struggling to maintain depth at 20 feet. If she had less gas in her cylinder, I don't think she'd have been able to finish the stop.

She has never had an issue like this, and clearly it comes from the additional base layers. We could add more weight, however we have already added four pounds to compensate for the added thermal protection, which seems excessive. (I only add two pounds to my rig to compensate for the same layering and that puts me at 26 pounds.)

So, here's my actual question:

We're adding a lot of non-ditchable weight here. Of the weight on her rig, 12 pounds is ditchable; 18 pounds is not.

At what point do I need to be concerned about finding ways to move that weight to a more discharge configuration, and how do I go about doing that? (e.g., Would the DUI weight harness function with a backplate and wing well enough to help us with this?)

Thanks in advance for any advice you have.

Ryan,

If you're planning on diving ''the Crack'' in Iceland, you do not need any gear.

Everything you will need is provided, everything!

You will be completely outfitted and set up pre dive.

I have dove the crack, it's a wonderful experience.

Rose

 

[Caversluis]

The wing should only be compensating for the gas weight. In the event of a catastrophic wing failure, your suit can easily compensate for that small additional amount (6 lb in a full AL80). Ditchable weight not needed in this case.

The main difficulty is a total suit flood. You have the 30 lbs of ballast that the wing now has to handle plus the gas weight. TBH, even with a 30 lb wing, you could easily surface with a total suit flood (which is also very unlikely). Breathing alone can compensate for at least 5 lb, and kicking alone is probably 10-15 lb.

In short, the rig is still balanced, as you can easily surface without ditching anything. Ditch lead at the surface if necessary.

>> The wing should only be compensating for the gas weight

Your wing should also be able to float you gear at the surface!

This is eally important if you do a boat dive and you need to doff your equipment in the water. When you add weight, there is a risk that your wing can no longer keep your gear afloat. In that case you will need a bigger wing.

I had exactly this issue when I changed to thicker undergarment. I needed to change my 40 lbs wing to a 50 lbs wing. Obviously, I use the 40 lbs during summer and the 50 lbs during winter.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I took my wife out for her first dive of the season yesterday. We were on vacation in February enjoying many tropical wetsuit dives, but yesterday was her first dive in her drysuit since October (so . . . about six months).

The conditions happened to match what I am expecting for an upcoming dive trip to Iceland, so I suggested she test out the additional undergarments we purchased for her just for this trip. "Let's do a trial run so you can decide if you need the thicker undergarments and, if so, how much weight you'll need."

For those interested in specific stats:

The undergarments layer was:
- Brynje mesh base layers (top and bottom) *NEW*
- Meriwool merino wool base layers (top and bottom)
- Fourth Element X-Core Vest *NEW*
- Fourth Element Arctic mid layers (top and bottom)
- Darn Tough merino wool base layer socks
- Fourth Element Hot Foot socks

The environment was:
- Air tenperature: 55 °F (13 °C)
- Water temperature: 40 °F (4 °C)

She dives a Halcyoon Eclipse BC with small hip weight pockets. The BC had a stainless steel backplate and we employ the stainless steel single tank adapter with the in-line weight. I also have a trim pocket installed on the cam band around the tank. We're diving Aluminum 80s.

By the time we added enough weight for her to sink and be able to stay down at twenty feet, she had thirty pounds of steel and lead strapped to her body:

- 6 pounds from the backplate
- 6 pounds from the STA and weight
- 6 pounds in each hip pocket
- 6 pounds in the trim pocket

She was able to hold her safety stop at the end of the dive at twenty feet, but she still had half a cylinder worth of gas (1,500 psi) and she reported struggling to maintain depth at 20 feet. If she had less gas in her cylinder, I don't think she'd have been able to finish the stop.

She has never had an issue like this, and clearly it comes from the additional base layers. We could add more weight, however we have already added four pounds to compensate for the added thermal protection, which seems excessive. (I only add two pounds to my rig to compensate for the same layering and that puts me at 26 pounds.)

So, here's my actual question:

We're adding a lot of non-ditchable weight here. Of the weight on her rig, 12 pounds is ditchable; 18 pounds is not.

At what point do I need to be concerned about finding ways to move that weight to a more discharge configuration, and how do I go about doing that? (e.g., Would the DUI weight harness function with a backplate and wing well enough to help us with this?)

Thanks in advance for any advice you have.

Get rid if the aluminum 80 and go to a HP steel 100 for cold water diving

 

[inquis]

Your wing should also be able to float you gear at the surface!

Agreed, but the flip side is you should only use as much lead on the rig as the wing will float. The rest goes on you. In the rare event you need to doff gear underwater (e.g., entanglement), it's super nice for both you and the rig to be independently neutral-ish.

 

[Ryan Neely]

>> The wing should only be compensating for the gas weight

Your wing should also be able to float you gear at the surface!

This is eally important if you do a boat dive and you need to doff your equipment in the water. When you add weight, there is a risk that your wing can no longer keep your gear afloat. In that case you will need a bigger wing.

I had exactly this issue when I changed to thicker undergarment. I needed to change my 40 lbs wing to a 50 lbs wing. Obviously, I use the 40 lbs during summer and the 50 lbs during winter.

Is taking your rig off the only reason to be concerned about having a wing with sufficient lift to buoy your rig, or are there other concerns (like remaining on the surface before a dive or . . . anything else I'm not thinking about)?