Logging dives towards instructor exam by hanging off anchor line at 20'?

[HowardE]

I think its more that people do not understand the audience that the courses are intended for, which is recreational divers. How many of us have been in the Ginnie Springs cavern, or the pilot house of a wreck? This is the kind of diving that the PADI overhead specialties are intended for. And as always, the diver is responsible for knowing what conditions and sites they are comfortable with. Training can not prepare you for every type of dive. I think that the PADI specialities, even pre new cavern course, are well thought out for recreational divers, but definetly not for technical or professional divers, nor should they be.

what's the point of a wreck course if they don't teach you how to penetrate the wreck properly? Anyone can dive a wreck, and stay on the outside with or without special training. you drop down... swim around... then come up... does that require special training?

 

[Thalassamania]

I think that the PADI specialities, even pre new cavern course, are well thought out for recreational divers, but definetly not for technical or professional divers, nor should they be.

Hmmm ... PROFESSIONAL Association of Diving Instructors ... "definetly not for technical or professional divers." The world is just chock-a-block full of puffery: Professional, Peak Performance, Open Water Diver, Master Diver, Advanced Open Water Diver, Adventure Dive, and on, and on, and on. Is there an honest term in that entire lexicon?

 

[HowardE]

Hmmm ... PROFESSIONAL Association of Diving Instructors ... "definetly not for technical or professional divers." The world is just chock-a-block full of puffery: Professional, Peak Performance, Open Water Diver, Master Diver, Advanced Open Water Diver, Adventure Dive, and on, and on, and on. Is there an honest term in that entire lexicon?

Maybe it should be called "PARDI"

PA of Recreational Dive Instructors.

 

[Thalassamania]

Maybe it should be called "PARDI"

PA of Recreational Dive Instructors.

You're good ... PARDI on dude!

 

[MikeFerrara]

what's the point of a wreck course if they don't teach you how to penetrate the wreck properly? Anyone can dive a wreck, and stay on the outside with or without special training. you drop down... swim around... then come up... does that require special training?

That's the wonderful thing about it! You are assured of passing before you ever start.

Whether or not special training is required isn't the question. The question is, "Is special training for it marketable?"

 

[Dive-aholic]

So who is really to blame? It sounds like the shop is more responsible for allowing it to happen than the agency who is depending on the shop to enforce the regulations. If it's more about making money for the SHOP (which it sounds like it is, if the IDC is targeted toward those who want to be "overnight sensations") then the ones who actually suffer are the OW students who get these instructors, and the agency's reputation is tarnished for somewhat allowing this to happen.

The shops and the instructors who buy into it. Like I said, I knew an instructor who thought he was going to teach the PADI cavern course. When I told him he needed to be cave certified, he tried to argue the standards with me. I told him to look in his manual. The only reason he wanted to teach the cavern course was to add another card to his book. I'm sure he's aspiring to be a CD one day and thinks all the cards will help.

Again, it sounds like more standardization of course material should be in order. I'm sure this is a big part of the reason that people constantly criticize PADI for their specialty courses being a joke. :shakehead

It's not just PADI. Other recreational agencies have recreational wreck diver courses. And they're not much different than PADI's course. To answer your other question:

what's the point of a wreck course if they don't teach you how to penetrate the wreck properly? Anyone can dive a wreck, and stay on the outside with or without special training. you drop down... swim around... then come up... does that require special training?

The PADI wreck course teaches you about surveying the wreck, assessing it, deciding on whether to penetrate or not, reel work, shooting SMBs, and about researching the history of the wrecks before the dives. It's actually not a bad recreational course. If taught correctly, it can even be a good preparation for a more advanced course. The problem isn't with PADI's wreck course, it's with the lack of anything beyond that. Like I said, there is an advanced wreck course available, but it's quite a bit lacking. After 6 dives, you're trained to do wreck penetration. I think it takes a lot more than that.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's not just PADI. Other recreational agencies have recreational wreck diver courses. And they're not much different than PADI's course.

I agree with you, it's kind of the difference between cavern and cave.

 

[jviehe]

what's the point of a wreck course if they don't teach you how to penetrate the wreck properly? Anyone can dive a wreck, and stay on the outside with or without special training. you drop down... swim around... then come up... does that require special training?

Again, its a wreck course for recreational divers, like tourists. Many new divers are not comfortable doing something like swimming down the overhanging deck of the Speigel Grove. This is who the course is intended for.

I. Course Overview
A. The purpose of the PADI Wreck Diver Specialty course is to
familiarize divers with the skills, knowledge, planning, organization,
procedures, techniques, problems, hazards and excitement of
diving on wrecks. The Wreck Diver Specialty course is intended as
a safe, supervised introduction to wreck diving, with emphasis on
fun and safety. The goals of PADI Wreck Diver training are:
1. Upon completing this program, the student should be able
to demonstrate practical wreck diving knowledge, including
recognizing and avoiding potential hazards, and planning
procedures that make wreck diving fun.
2. Upon completing this program, the student should be able to
explain the historical value of wrecks, social and legal issues
surrounding that value, and describe some of wreck diving’s
implications, including the pros and cons of removing artifacts
from wrecks.
3. Upon completing this program, the student should be able to
plan and organize dives to safely explore wrecks found within
depths and conditions as good as or better than those he has
been trained in.
4. Upon completing this program, the student should be able
to identify the hazards of wreck penetration diving and demonstrate
the techniques and procedures required to minimize
those hazards.

Looks pretty cut and dry to me. THis is not a technical wreck diving course, nor is the cavern course technical. They are designed for recreational divers.

 

[Thalassamania]

Again, the problem is a name thing, puffery.

 

[drbill]

I would hope that the instructor involved in the course this wanna be instructor plans to take would question the dive log if it shows several dives to 20 feet for 20 min. Not someone I'd want to see as an instructor.