Logging dives towards instructor exam by hanging off anchor line at 20'?

[MikeFerrara]

The cheaper way is to certify 25 divers and apply for it directly to PADI.

Interesting... Wouldn't it be more prudent to actually have real life experience in the specific course? You mean - someone could teach wreck diving without ever having been inside of a wreck? That's ludicrous!?!


Can you explain this more?

If an instructor has issues 25 certifications...say they taught a few OW classes. They can qualify to teach most specialties by sending the application in to PADI. That application states that they have 20 dives experience in that specialty.

In the case of the cavern specialty, the instructor needs to be cave certified, so they have been in a cave.

In the case of the wreck diving specialty, which includes the option of doing a penetration (similar limits as cavern diving) on the 4th dive, the instructor need not have any wreck training and need not have done any wreck penetration on any of their own 20 dives of experience. Here in quarry land it isn't unusal to count a sunken car or truck as a wreck dive. The course is often taught on those sorts of wrecks and, in fact, I took the wreck specialty instructor course with a course director and we used the school buss in France park (a little quarry here in Indiana)...a cute old
1940ish buss in about 25 ft of water. LOL we went inside and everything!

An instructor who has not yet issued 25 certs can take the instructor course for that specialty with a course director. The exact nature of the course depends on the specialty. You still need to document (10 dives?) worth of experience in that specialty.

 

[blue_diver]

Maybe this should be in a more general forum; I don't know. But I observed it happening in south Florida, and since I spend almost all my SB time with the Conchs, here goes:

I am curious as to what most SB'ers would think about a diver getting in his (or her) last 8 or so dives (looking for the magic number 100...) so that he/she can take the PADI (I think) instructor exam, and by getting the "dives" in, I mean going out on a charter boat, and while everybody else is down on the wreck having fun, the diver (instructor-to-be) is going 20' down the anchor line, hanging for15-20 minutes, coming up, doing a surface interval, then going back down and getting in another "dive", all while the real divers are still on the wreck.

I don't really want to say exactly where this happened or even exactly when, but it was pretty recent, and it was for two consecutive trips. I think that translated to 8 "dives" for the soon-to-be-instructor.

Does this bother anyone except me? Is this the type of "dive experience" we want an instructor to have? What does anyone else think about this?

Whoa, talk about a small world! I think I was on the same boat or this is one heck of a coincidence. The diver in question was cramming in the last dives before taking the PADI instructor exam. I wondered too about why this person was hanging on the line for so long. I actually ended up doing a dive with this person and wasn't that impressed with the underwater skills that I observed. I'll echo some of the comments already posted, it's real experience that make the difference. I've been diving for several years and have a fair number of dives in, and still don't feel I have enough experience to be an instructor. Not that I'm that interested in being one or a DM for that matter. Hey, let's all go out and have a fun, safe dive!

 

[Dive-aholic]

Interesting... Wouldn't it be more prudent to actually have real life experience in the specific course? You mean - someone could teach wreck diving without ever having been inside of a wreck? That's ludicrous!?!

Yes, it would be more prudent, but that doesn't make money for the shop.

Yes, someone can teach wreck diving without ever having been inside of a wreck. PADI offers an optional penetration on the 4th dive. I'm sure a lot of instructors don't even offer the option to their students. I did my wreck specialty in the northeast because I wanted to learn from a wreck diver, not from some instructor who goes to San Diego once a year to teach a wreck specialty (yes, this is what was offered locally).


And you're right, Mike, it is 10 dives. But that only takes about 5 minutes to log...

 

[Thalassamania]

The diver in question was cramming in the last dives before taking the PADI instructor exam.

And where was this moron's buddy? Doesn't PADI require a buddy signature on the log, or is Forgery a new Distinctive Specialty Course?

 

[HowardE]

Yes, it would be more prudent, but that doesn't make money for the shop.

So who is really to blame? It sounds like the shop is more responsible for allowing it to happen than the agency who is depending on the shop to enforce the regulations. If it's more about making money for the SHOP (which it sounds like it is, if the IDC is targeted toward those who want to be "overnight sensations") then the ones who actually suffer are the OW students who get these instructors, and the agency's reputation is tarnished for somewhat allowing this to happen.

Yes, someone can teach wreck diving without ever having been inside of a wreck. PADI offers an optional penetration on the 4th dive. I'm sure a lot of instructors don't even offer the option to their students.

Again, it sounds like more standardization of course material should be in order. I'm sure this is a big part of the reason that people constantly criticize PADI for their specialty courses being a joke. :shakehead

 

[D_B]

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B
You cant teach someone to be ethical if the're not

Or if you're not.

I guess that's what it all boils down to ... ethics
... kinda like having a school teacher without any

It's sad to see so many instructors taking short cuts

 

[Rick Murchison]

... Now I see instructors doing silly little fake dives to get the numbers they need for technical instructor requirements.

That's not very good news, Mike. :shakehead
Rick

 

[Thalassamania]

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B
You cant teach someone to be ethical if the're not


I guess that's what it all boils down to ... ethics
... kinda like having a school teacher without any

It's sad to see so many instructors taking short cuts

Yeah, but when the Course Directors and Agency Representatives are developing Wink and Nod syndrome as they stuff cash in their pockets for thing that we all used to volunteer to do ... that goes beyond just an individual's ethical lapse and enters the realm of the entire barrel being rotten.

 

[MikeFerrara]

That's not very good news, Mike. :shakehead
Rick

I doubt if it's really anything new but I first saw it right after DSAT rolled out their tech program.

 

[jviehe]

Again, it sounds like more standardization of course material should be in order. I'm sure this is a big part of the reason that people constantly criticize PADI for their specialty courses being a joke. :shakehead

I think its more that people do not understand the audience that the courses are intended for, which is recreational divers. How many of us have been in the Ginnie Springs cavern, or the pilot house of a wreck? This is the kind of diving that the PADI overhead specialties are intended for. And as always, the diver is responsible for knowing what conditions and sites they are comfortable with. Training can not prepare you for every type of dive. I think that the PADI specialities, even pre new cavern course, are well thought out for recreational divers, but definetly not for technical or professional divers, nor should they be.