Unfortunately, the instructor involved in the course probably told the wanna be instructor to go do this to get the 100 dives required...
Logging dives towards instructor exam by hanging off anchor line at 20'?
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Thalassamania:
I've thought about taking Cavern. I really don't plan on diving caves but thought Cavern would be fun and good to have for the Cenotes. I thought I might pickup some good skills to use for wrecks etc. from the cavers that teach it.
Is it a waste?
Cavern is definitely not a waste. It's a great course that teaches lots of skills that can be used in almost any environment. Take it when you get a chance.
RiverRat:
Actually, it's not a waste of time. I took the class last January, and I had a wonderful time. I believe 4 or 5 of the students in my class went on to Intro to Cave, and they didn't have to take Cavern all over again like some people will lead you to believe.
I also acquired new teaching skills by watching the instructor. He set the teaching standard that I needed to meet or exceed. So, it was win-win for me.
Scuba_Dad:
I think I must be the "some" since I think I'm the only one who mentioned cave instructors not accepting the PADI cavern certification.
It's a fact that I know cave instructors who won't accept it. I also stated that I didn't know what the official stance of the NACD or NSS-CDS was. If someone wants to go on to cave training they would be well served to check with the cave instructor they intend on using before taking the PADI course. Whether or not these instructors would make a student do the whole cavern course over or just the pieces they missed, I couldn't say without asking.
The PADI course is not the equivilant of other cavern courses and the instructor requirements aren't even in the same ball park regardless of what some would have you believe.
Here is a thread where our very own Chickdiver who is a NACD instructor comes right out and says in plain english that a PADI cavern course is not accepted by the NACD as equivilant. She does so on page 1 of the thread. She goes on later in the thread to mention how she addresses the issue of a student who shows up with a PADI cavern certification. I suggest PMing her for more details.
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19926&page=2&highlight=PADI+cavern
The subject of missing skills in the PADI course came up on TDS and one of the instructors who told me he wouldn't accept a PADI cavern card responded here. His response here is a little different than what I remember him telling me but the point is that he makes a student do the missing skills and the course, is not the same. It's the reply by Steve Keene (NACD, IANTD and PADI instructor) on the second page of the thread.
From http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474&page=2&highlight=PADI+cavern
These are two NACD instructors who will not accept a PADI cavern course as equivilant. Both require some amount of remedial training. Both can be contacted easy enough for further clarification. Again, I would recommend that a diver interested in going on to cave training check with their perspective cave instructor before taking the PADI cavern course so they can plan for any remedial training rather than getting surprised at the last minute.
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19926&page=2&highlight=PADI+cavern
The subject of missing skills in the PADI course came up on TDS and one of the instructors who told me he wouldn't accept a PADI cavern card responded here. His response here is a little different than what I remember him telling me but the point is that he makes a student do the missing skills and the course, is not the same. It's the reply by Steve Keene (NACD, IANTD and PADI instructor) on the second page of the thread.
From http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474&page=2&highlight=PADI+cavern
These are two NACD instructors who will not accept a PADI cavern course as equivilant. Both require some amount of remedial training. Both can be contacted easy enough for further clarification. Again, I would recommend that a diver interested in going on to cave training check with their perspective cave instructor before taking the PADI cavern course so they can plan for any remedial training rather than getting surprised at the last minute.
original post of thread: At least they are not just writing them in their log????
All I can say is if they are willing to do that then what kind of instructor will they be.
The Cavern Hijack: As far as the cavern cert by PADI is concern it is up to the instructor to accept it or not. An instructor needs to validate the student regardless of what agency his cavern card is from. If you want a PADi cavern card from me - fine but I'm not changing my class from an NACD or a TDI format. The next instructor will have to make their own assessment of the student. Also PADI has changed their standards on the cavern specialty and has brought it much more in line with the other agencys. It may be not perfect but it is a start.
NO cave instructor will accept so readily, a card from any agency without a validation of skills of the diver not without having trained them to that level, mute point then as they were validated the entire time up to that level.
In fact no instructor should do this for any class level of instruction. to do otherwise would be foolish
All I can say is if they are willing to do that then what kind of instructor will they be.
The Cavern Hijack: As far as the cavern cert by PADI is concern it is up to the instructor to accept it or not. An instructor needs to validate the student regardless of what agency his cavern card is from. If you want a PADi cavern card from me - fine but I'm not changing my class from an NACD or a TDI format. The next instructor will have to make their own assessment of the student. Also PADI has changed their standards on the cavern specialty and has brought it much more in line with the other agencys. It may be not perfect but it is a start.
NO cave instructor will accept so readily, a card from any agency without a validation of skills of the diver not without having trained them to that level, mute point then as they were validated the entire time up to that level.
In fact no instructor should do this for any class level of instruction. to do otherwise would be foolish
Hmmm... I was sure I posted in this thread earlier, but...
Padding dive numbers like this is cheating more than the individual or the agency, it is cheating the students who may end up getting certified by such an instructor if he or she gets the cert.
It is my opinion that an instructor cert should require far more than 100 dives to qualify. Heck, I've done thousands and am a great teacher to boot (per my students dating back decades), yet I don't feel qualified to teach SCUBA.
I almost had to laugh when I started dive travel with my decades old Los Angeles County c-card. Young instructors from other agencies, some whose parents weren't even born when I started diving, were requiring a checkout dive despite a log showing recent dive activity. They weren't even aware that their agencies (more than one) had not even been formed when I started diving.
Padding dive numbers like this is cheating more than the individual or the agency, it is cheating the students who may end up getting certified by such an instructor if he or she gets the cert.
It is my opinion that an instructor cert should require far more than 100 dives to qualify. Heck, I've done thousands and am a great teacher to boot (per my students dating back decades), yet I don't feel qualified to teach SCUBA.
I almost had to laugh when I started dive travel with my decades old Los Angeles County c-card. Young instructors from other agencies, some whose parents weren't even born when I started diving, were requiring a checkout dive despite a log showing recent dive activity. They weren't even aware that their agencies (more than one) had not even been formed when I started diving.
drbill:
Maybe they were concerned about your age?
Well said, GDI. You hit the nail on the head. It's the instructor who is accepting the student has the responsibility to ensure they meet the minimum requirements for the class.
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