Local dive shop tanks out of vis AND hydro. Is this common?

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Are you talking about the Hydro place or LDS that doesn't remove the stickers, etc.?

Hydrostatic test station. A visual inspection is supposed to be accomplished as part of the hydro. That's why I have heard some folks saying a VIP ** in addition to ** is redundant and a rip for money. But I don't know the standards for a visual done by the hydro station. From my observations, it is not as comprehensive as the PSI/PCI process.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Most don't use a uv light. It is largely a pointless step at this point.
There aren't many breathing air compressors in the dive world running conventional oil. Most everybody has switched to synthetic at this point. I haven't found any synthetic blends that glow on the UV spectrum.

Even if they did, an oil sprayed tank doesn't really require a special light to see. It is immediately apparent when you have staining in a clean tank, whether it be oil or water.

sure, but having some kid to look for less than a minute inside a cylinder shouldn't cost $25.

 

[UofMI_Divegeek]

Its a good idea to inspect a cylinder after hydro to make sure all the test water has been evaporated (I once had a steel cylinder returned after hydro with more than a cup of water in the cylinder ... last time I used that facility) Its a good idea to inspect the cylinder before hydro 'cause an obvious flaw or crack can save the customer the cost of the hydro and hydro testing time.

Indeed, PSI/PCI has an awesome / thorough inspection checklist .... I appreciate the care given by PSI trained inspectors to my cylinders which is why I frequent PSI trained shops. Incidentally, DOT often considers PSI as the definitive authority in all matter pertaining to scuba cylinders.

Specifications for hydros and inspections are documented in the US by the compressed gas association (CGA) pamphlets:

C-1: Methods for Hydrostatic Testing of Compressed Gas Cylinders

C-6: Standards for Visual Inspection of Steel Compressed Gas Cylinders

C-6.1 Standards for Visual Inspection of High Pressure Aluminum Compressed Gas Cylinders

As I understand it, hydro facilities are expected to have a full set of relevant CGA publications (which is very expensive). I have also been told that during a random unannounced DOT visit to the hydro facility / dive shop I frequent, the inspector asked to see the CGA collection to make certain all the pamphlets were current.

 

[BoltSnap]

Hydrostatic test station. A visual inspection is supposed to be accomplished as part of the hydro. That's why I have heard some folks saying a VIP ** in addition to ** is redundant and a rip for money. But I don't know the standards for a visual done by the hydro station. From my observations, it is not as comprehensive as the PSI/PCI process.

Hydro stations that aren't PSI trained/certified don't know much about the special requirements for tanks used in scuba diving and hence their "visual" inspection doesn't have much to do with what is required for scuba tanks.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

Hydro stations that aren't PSI trained/certified don't know much about the special requirements for tanks used in scuba diving and hence their "visual" inspection doesn't have much to do with what is required for scuba tanks.

^^^ Exactly my point. ^^^

And further, since fire extinguisher bidness is the one doing most all the scuba hydros hereabouts, and that they may have, based on my casual observation when dropping off or retrieving cylinders, 90% of their hydro business devoted to fire supression equipment and maybe 10% to scuba and other industrial cylinders, all I really expect from one of their hydros is to tell me how much the cylinder expands at test pressure and if it snaps back when de-pressurized. I'll take care of the rest later.

That was primarily for the folks that say "all it needs is a hydro"...

 

[BoltSnap]

^^^ Exactly my point. ^^^

And further, since fire extinguisher bidness is the one doing most all the scuba hydros hereabouts, and that they may have, based on my casual observation when dropping off or retrieving cylinders, 90% of their hydro business devoted to fire supression equipment and maybe 10% to scuba and other industrial cylinders, all I really expect from one of their hydros is to tell me how much the cylinder expands at test pressure and if it snaps back when de-pressurized. I'll take care of the rest later.

That was primarily for the folks that say "all it needs is a hydro"...

EXACTLY

 

[Umpman]

Hey guys!

So me and my wife went to our LDS to rent a set of steel 100s for some diving in our quarry this weekend. When I went to pick them up, they were 4 years out of vis, and 3 years out of hydro. When I mentioned that I would not like to dive them I got a very... condescending look back from them. They told me the only danger is during the fill, and that since they are already filled I wouldn't have a problem. I told them I understood, but I would prefer to do things the correct way (we are tech divers, and not very fond of bending rules because they "technically" have no risk).

They told me they stopped putting vis inspection stickers on the cylinders because people rent tanks, steal them, and then put them on their own tanks.

They told me they didn't do the hydro because the steel 100s rarely get rented out and "most people don't actually hydro their tanks".

Was I being a stuck up A-hole? I was being talked to as if I was being overly cautious, but it seemed very black and white to me.

P.S. We ended up diving single tanks that were in hydro/vis, and are now looking to just purchase our own set of doubles.

Personally I would report them to whatever training agency they work with as well as the proper authorities for the fact they are breaking the law filling tanks out of hydro.

If they are not willing to VIP and Hydro tanks, are they having their compressor and banks cleaned and inspected, probably not. I wouldn’t even trust their air

FInd a new dive shop and while you are at it, make sure you leave them negative reviews on all social media. Don’t let other people risk their lives either.

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

I read the first few posts only - that was enough for me to agree with what others have said - find another LDS - I wouldn't trust their air.

 

[Umpman]

The VIP is a cash grab and I am willing to bet good money that people in the US who have their own compressors/blending systems give very few ***** about hydro tests as well.

First let me say, I do not own a dive shop nor do I work for one so I have no financial investment in people getting their tanks VIP. With that said, I have helped my dive shop fill tanks and have learned about VIP procedures as part of my instructor training and dive guiding. I have seen several tanks come in for VIP that had issues. Some had water in them, some had flecks, some had rust and one even had chunks of metal. Getting a tank VIP is not a money maker for dive shops. Most shops charge $15 to $20 for an annual VIP and that includes a fill so really the VIP is only $7 to $10 depending on how much your shop charges for air. When you figure the shop has to drain the tank, drop a light in it, change the O rings and then refill, that is not a lot of money.

 

[Umpman]

sure, but having some kid to look for less than a minute inside a cylinder shouldn't cost $25.

It isn’t $25, it’s really about $15 since it always includes a fill. The shop does have to drain the tank, open it and inspect it. That does taKe time. Scuba isn’t a cheap sport, this is just part of it. Most people who own their own tanks dive multiple times a year. If you get 15 fills in a year, that is only $1 a fill.
If you aren’t getting that many fills a year, it probably isn’t worth owning your own tanks.