Local dive shop in Venice CA, refuses to fill tanks

[rjchandler]

Actually I applaud the shop owner for refusing to fill tanks. It was suggested by one of the owners at our LDS that they do the same thing for internet purchasers. Buy it from Lesuirepro? Get them to fill it.

It's difficult for any small shop owner to compete obviously. Our LDS shop has a new policy. Need your reg serviced? Free the first time and 10 bucks in the future, plus parts. Bought it online? 50 bucks.

pity the travelling or relocating diver. bought that tank in Michigan did you?- go ask them to fill it.

 

[rjchandler]

I know the owner of the shop, this was not the reason he refused to fill the tanks. If you want to find out the real reason, give him a call. I.

care to give us a hint

 

[The Kraken]

If I'm not mistaken, one of the earlier posters mentioned that there were some factors of which we are not aware that caused the person at the LDS to react in the manner in which he did - and suggested that if we wanted to know more about the incident that we should contact the dive shop operator.

 

[padiscubapro]

nice guy. why do you have such a bee in your bonnet about manufacturers recommendations?

because from a liability standpoint, they are the ultimate authority when it is against another party..

A person ignoring what a manufacturer states as the limits is SOL if they go beyond those limits and a problem occurs.
Every lawsuit lost by a store or instructor potentially raises the cost to others.. Most manufacturer's in the US hold product liability insurance which for large companies is more cost effective than the little guy bearing the brunt of the responsibility. If you follow the manufacturer, they can be held responsible much easier, if you ignore their recommendations, they can probably get out of the lawsuit and you are on your own..

 

[moon]

Actually I applaud the shop owner for refusing to fill tanks. It was suggested by one of the owners at our LDS that they do the same thing for internet purchasers. Buy it from Lesuirepro? Get them to fill it.

It's difficult for any small shop owner to compete obviously. Our LDS shop has a new policy. Need your reg serviced? Free the first time and 10 bucks in the future, plus parts. Bought it online? 50 bucks.

Personally, I think that's a poor attitude. In reality of things, scuba isn't the cheapest of hobbies. I understand that small stores need to keep in business, the best way to do this? One is to integrate into the diving community in a friendly manner, another way is to treat divers with respect and share knowledge, and of course another way is to have some great deals. There's all sorts of ways of getting the local divers attention and getting them to come in and patronage the store. But, refusing air fills on tanks bought elsewhere? Or not allowing someone to take a class because they took their first classes somewhere else? That's pretty poor. How does one even begin to create and maintain a good customer relationship - which in the diving community I'd think would be important, considering the word of mouth (as in example here on this board) - if you flat out refuse service.

So, a person bought tanks via the Internet. Maybe they'll buy the next ones at your store (i.e. OE had some great sale that included 25yrs. air fills - a lot of ppl. went for that deal) - or maybe they'll purchase a new wetsuit or some other diving gear. You never know. But, once you give someone a bad taste in their mouth over your store.. the word spreads fast and quick. It's often times something that's regretable.

Glad to hear that you guys service stuff not bought at your store, even if you charge a bit extra. So, that is the price you pay.. the diver at least knows that in advance.

 

[android]

unless you are using Luxfer, or Catalina cylinders or Thermo Valves.. All require their products to be maintained oxygen clean for anything other than AIR. Thermo also specifically states they do not recommend PP blending with their products but doesnt go as prohibiting it

The nitrox generated must meet the proper standards (many membrane systems do not) and cant speak for this specific shop..

If this shop is ignoring manufacturer recomendations, I would hope when an accident occurs they get sued, lose and hopefully would teach others to follow the rules. ALWAYS foloow manufacturer recommendations..

So does the manufacturer really have our safety in mind or are they interested in selling multiple tanks and regulators. Since NOAA seems to think that up to 40% O2 can be freely mixed with "clean" air, I don't have much faith that the manufactures fine print is based on science, but that it is only lawyer-induced, knee-jerk CYA.

I just wish NOAA, OSHA or DOT would set some standards which the manufactures must meet. Then all this confusion would be cleared up.

(And I bet there would be no changes to current valves and tanks if the govt. did regulate it. All of the sudden they would change their minds and decide their gear was OK after all.)

 

[scubacalifornia]

I know the owner of the shop, this was not the reason he refused to fill the tanks. If you want to find out the real reason, give him a call. I personally have had nothing but good experiences with this shop. This is the only shop in the area that has made the investment in a membrane system so that their nitrox fills do not require O2 clean, everyone else does Partial pressure. And of course Sport Chalet still thinks Nitrox is the devil's gas.

I remember when this thread started about a month ago, and I'm surprised it's still alive and kicking. I have read a lot of speculation about the shop's reason for not filling the tank. A few weeks back, one of the members of this thread told me he called the shop, informed them of the discussion going on here, and invited them to participate. Unless I missed something, I haven't seen them post. If there's a valid reason for not filling the tank, let's hear it. I applaud the Scubaboard community here for using discretion and not openly disclosing the name of the shop, but I (and I'm sure others) already know who it is. I would like to see the shop put this thread and all the speculation to rest, and tell us their side of the story.
Kevin

 

[padiscubapro]

So does the manufacturer really have our safety in mind or are they interested in selling multiple tanks and regulators. Since NOAA seems to think that up to 40% O2 can be freely mixed with "clean" air, I don't have much faith that the manufactures fine print is based on science, but that it is only lawyer-induced, knee-jerk CYA.

I just wish NOAA, OSHA or DOT would set some standards which the manufactures must meet. Then all this confusion would be cleared up.

(And I bet there would be no changes to current valves and tanks if the govt. did regulate it. All of the sudden they would change their minds and decide their gear was OK after all.)

Luxfer and catalina mirror CGA standards and thermo to some extent. Scuba valves and regulators are inherently similar to "approved" oxygen regs and valves, there are some differences that do need to be addressed..

ANy sharp truns or abrupt restrictions in the gas path must be looked out.. Thermo valves in general are well made, My only complaint is that they open and shut very quickly.. This leads to the possibility od a person POSSIBLY pressuring a reg (which may be marginal in design with respecto to oxygen compatibility) and now you can be over the edge.

If everyone followed established CGA rules (which is what DOT also uses for many things) we wouldn't be having this discussion.

If the government (in the us) got involved what most likely would happen is whats happening in europe.. Mandating a specific valve connection for enriched mixtures (it isnt mandated for another few years) and following oxygen clean standards.

 

[dazedone]

Most people at SC don't know the first thing about nitrox. They are waiting for CAL-OSHA to change their rules to be in line with OSHA rules. Then they'll be pushing classes and gas as if they invented it.

Neil

You are exactly right. One time I wanted to bring a tank filled with nitrox on one of their charters and was told I could not, so they are pretty strict on the cal-osha stuff.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Who's to say where I bought my gear? Let's say I live in Dallas and buy gear. Then relocate to Los Angeles and bring my gear with me ('cause it's not cheap, you know?). Am I SOL because I relocated? I supported my LDS in Dallas, but the Los Angeles LDS has no idea who I am...

Doesn't sound too fair to me. =(

And you DEFINITELY won't get my business when it's time to buy new gear.

Well the shop will gas up your tanks. Since you didn't purchase the gear from this shop you would be standard rates for repairs, no discounts as there wasn't a profit made from you. This seems fair to me.