Local dive shop in Venice CA, refuses to fill tanks

[rjchandler]

because from a liability standpoint, they are the ultimate authority when it is against another party..

A person ignoring what a manufacturer states as the limits is SOL if they go beyond those limits and a problem occurs.
Every lawsuit lost by a store or instructor potentially raises the cost to others.. Most manufacturer's in the US hold product liability insurance which for large companies is more cost effective than the little guy bearing the brunt of the responsibility. If you follow the manufacturer, they can be held responsible much easier, if you ignore their recommendations, they can probably get out of the lawsuit and you are on your own..

What practically do the manufacturers recommendations mean in the context of scuba tanks?

Does the tank have to be cleaned prior to each fill?
Are there prescribed procedures?
Does the shop owner have to do the cleaning himself?
Should fills be on a "tank swap" basis?

 

[derby]

Well the shop will gas up your tanks. Since you didn't purchase the gear from this shop you would be standard rates for repairs, no discounts as there wasn't a profit made from you. This seems fair to me.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have quoted your whole post. I was only referring to the refusal to fill the tank.

I'll edit my previous post and quote to reflect this.

 

[padiscubapro]

What practically do the manufacturers recommendations mean in the context of scuba tanks?

Does the tank have to be cleaned prior to each fill?
Are there prescribed procedures?
Does the shop owner have to do the cleaning himself?
Should fills be on a "tank swap" basis?

For the most part the main thing is how they arrive from the factory, but recommendations can also be effected by if the tanks are treated with anything..

I don't know how long you have been diving but there were a bunch of tanks offered in the past with internal coatings..
Also some of the recommendations can also be effeted by pressure.. Remeber two things different metals combust at different pressures, an oxygen becomes more unstable as the pressure increases. Oxygen is much safer at 2015 psi (a common pressure for oxygen fills in industrial steels) than it is a 3000 psi in either a steel or Al cylinder..

a) no as long as oxygen compatible gas is used

B) no the shop owner doesn't have to do it, but the shop probably should require some proof that it was cleaned and checked properly.. by approved methods - Simple green and Joy are not approved cleaners (by the manufacturers) which many people use..

c) tank swap is not necessray.. Just buy gas from a source that provides oxygen compatible gas, gets the gas regularly tested and is not affraid to post their air analysis results.

 

[nlbford]

Could it be he may have had a concern about the integrity and/or inspection history of those tanks, based on past experience? Maybe he didn't want to have a tank explode in his store.

Or maybe he ran out of milk for his Cocoa Puffs that morning.

Perhaps. But then I think of my LDS and their attitude. Extremely safety concious and accepting of the fact that people do shop elsewhere and don't hold that against them (I once heard one of the owners tell an employee who mentioned people buying elsewhere, "Let them. They will pay more"). If a tank of questionable integrity came in, they would not ban that person from the store and refuse to fill it. They would address the issue by bringing it to their attention and attempting to bring it up to snuff or encourage them not to dive with it (and possibly mention it could be replaced with a purchase from the shop in a completely friendly and non-judgemental way) - hell if a dive was imminent my guess if they wopuld offer the use of a free rental if the person promised not to dive the bad tank.

So even if it was a question about the integrity of the tank, the owner's reaction was way out of line and not conducive to anyone's safety - well except his own perceieved safety from a potential law suit. He certainly had no one elses safety in mind.

ANyway, the story doesn't surprise me. I think I could guess which shop it is because I have heard about one of the shops in Venice (and am amazed it is still there everytime I drive by given how many others I see quickly come and go here in West LA) and this is inkeeping with their rep.

 

[caveseeker7]

:11:

 

[caveseeker7]

... you might want to consider Reefseekers in Beverly Hills.
Their air fills are free (2 tanks/diver/day)

 

[nlbford]

Sometimes people like to bash Sport Chalet because they are so "corporate" but then they forget (or weren't even aware) that Sport Chalet up until recently was a small-time operation.

Until the early 80's there was only the original La Canada store, still in operation today. Then they added a second store in Huntington Beach. Their large "corporate" expansion only happened within the last decade or so.

While I am only a recently certified diver I am a long-time snow skiier and thus I have been familiar with SC for a long, long time. If you visit the original store sometimes you'll see Norbert, the man who started it all, still being hands-on.

I have a soft spot for SC, I bought my first skis from the little shop in Studio City back in the late 70's. They were always really very nice and very helpful.

I still shop them for several things (funnily enough, diving isn't of of them), especially fishing gear. They aways carry the brands I want and I have never seen a price lower on the internet or elsewhere.

 

[neil]

You are exactly right. One time I wanted to bring a tank filled with nitrox on one of their charters and was told I could not, so they are pretty strict on the cal-osha stuff.

Don't label the tank next time. The CAL-OSHA rules apply only to their employees. There was no legitimate reason to forbid you to use nitrox on their boat.

 

[RichLockyer]

Don't label the tank next time. The CAL-OSHA rules apply only to their employees. There was no legitimate reason to forbid you to use nitrox on their boat.

Then stay away from Reef Seekers as well.
They have a strict no-nitrox policy on any of their charters.

 

[Potapko]

It is a simple fact that a local dive shop cannot compete with an internet sales warehouse on prices. That is not saying that you cannot find a better price in a local shop (sometimes), but rather, overall, you can find better "deals" online because this person normally does not have to maintain a storefront and all that is involved in that.
They also cannot stay open selling air fills.

So, what are most of us looking for from a dive shop? SERVICE. MAny good things have been posted about the mega SC. I do not know them personally but are they the walmart of Scuba? The tech or worker in the store is being paid to be there, if they cheerfully answer my questions and offer advice. I will likely go back there when I need something, and probably even pay a little bit more for it than I might find from someone on the net.

The first three rules for any store are:

1. Serve the customer
2. Serve the customer
3. .........................

The ones who learn this are successful!.
Henry Ford said "The goal is not to see how little we can give the customer for his dollar, the goal is to see how MUCH we can give him for his dollar"
Sorry if this isn't 100%.