rjens - "the resort 3-day wonder certifications....:
-- allowfolks to learn enough to enjoy warm shallow water diving while on vacation.
-- at a price that is affordable
-- this keeps enough folks entering the "sport" to make it a viable -- if not thriving internationally industry."
Three problems here. First, what, other than the interests of Club Med stockholders, creates a moral imperative for allowing any lazy idiot who wants to to enjoy shallow warm water diving while on vacation to do so? People are concerned about the reefs - such increased access is not good for the reefs. Please don't tell me how seeing them raises people's awareness - the roads through Yellowstone are clogged with Lincoln Navigators - shallow, lazy, non-thinking lemming types don't make the connection between their personal choices in other areas of life and destroying the beauty they see, and they never will.
Second, this price thing is a red herring. The shop I use is the only one in town not teaching a one-weekend learn to die course. Their course meets PADI, NAUI, and YMCA standards and offers PADI and NAUI certs. It runs 8 weeks, and includes task loading and stress drills, such as a single hose buddy breathing tank exchange with one buddy maskless (which must be repeated until neutral buoyancy is maintained throughout), bail outs, etc. and a couple cumulative hours of just practicing hovering. The final written exam is comparable to the PADI DM exam, AND THE PRICE IS COMPARABLE TO OTHERS IN TOWN. Furthermore, in 16 years of assisting in this course, I've never heard a complaint that it's too difficult, despite those passing it being 12-75 years old, from rocket scientists to janitors.
rjens - "I signed up for my OW class with one goal, to enjoy a few tropical reef dives with 5 kids (ages 13-20) while on vacation in Maui. Getting a C card was a bonus....It was perfect, and significantly exceeded my expectations.There is no way that I would have paid for a comprehensive OW course before going on vacation. I simply didn't understand the need for it at the time, it didnt meet my goals."
This is one of the most shallow statements I've ever heard. I suggest you need to raise your expectations of yourself and those you obtain services from. Once again, there is no appreciable price difference between complete and quicky courses. If the commitment of time and effort would have put you off from diving, then what that says about how you make decisions is problematic, at best.
rjens - "I would have assumed it was just a suburban yuppie dive shop ripping off folks that didnt know any better...I understand the desire to fix OW, but you would have better results if you aimed the course at the peoplen that wants help (like me). The majority of potential divers dont understand the need for the additional effort"
Aren't you glad, if you ever need surgery, that your doctor didn't assume medical school was a suburban yuppie university ripping off folk who didn't know any better? Do you REALLY take this approach to evaluating education, especially in preparation for potentially life-threatening activities? Don't you ever stop, in life, and exercise a little skepticism when things seem too easy to be true? Don't you ever ask yourself, "What's the catch?" or "How will this shortcut impact me in the long run?" You do realize that people seeking shortcuts to benefit are what con artists look for in a 'mark', don't you? That most confidence games reel the victim in with the offer of an easier route to something desirable? "Yeah, that static line crap is just a scam - show me the ripcord and toss me out the hatch at 10,000 ft." Stop and think about the implications of this type of thinking - it will only hurt you in the long run.
samsp - "Agreed. This is what got me into diving"
Well, I'll just come out and say it - if access without a little effort and time to gain adequate skills is what it takes to get you into diving, I'd rather you didn't get into diving. You just told us, essentially, one of two things. Either you don't think diving is a rewarding experience, or you expect in life to reap the benefits of rewarding experiences without any real effort or sacrifice. This is the free lunch paradigm that has given us the entitlement society.
Maybe a little sharing of my perspective is in order. The first time I saw SCUBA diving, on "Flipper" as a six year old, I said to mother "I will do that someday." She told me it was very tough to learn, that I had to be an exceptional swimmer, etc. I didn't care - it looked neat enough to be worth it. If, when I got to college and signed up for an OW class, the instructor had outlined something like SEAL training, and that had been the only way I could dive, I would have simply said, "Others have done it, and their name wasn't Clark Kent, so I will do it as well." As it stood, I was surprised at how easy the course was; it was the easiest credit hour I ever earned. I have very little patience for the amount of learned helplessness in our society today, and the expectation that all good things are free for the asking.
Choosing your dive training based on how quick and easy it is, is like choosing a college based on how their football team did last year (when you don't play football.)
GDI- "And today Lexus, Porche and BMW are selling as much as GM, Ford and Mercedes owned Chyrsler...People want quality but they want to pay less for it...Maybe we can look at the Harley Davidson's vs the HOG wanna be's. American Quality made in Volume or a overpriced highly sought after toy?"
GDI, make no mistake, Lexus, Porsche, and BMW are not selling on their quality. They are selling on cachet value - perception over reality. To quote John Goodman in the movie "King Ralph" - "when the average Joe comes into the showroom, he wants the answer to one quesiton: will this car get me laid?" The new Cayenne can hardly get out of its own way, and people still line up to buy it. They readily pay $100K for a 911 that shares 80% of its parts with a $40K Boxster. Outside the US, Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura models are sold as Toyotas, Nissans, and Hondas, but here, these "quality manufacturers" know consumers here will pay a premium for a snob label. Dealers have waiting lists for Harleys that sport the best technology the 1940's had to offer. The model T was the Yugo of its day. The Japanese carmakers are learning all the dirty tricks of Detroit - look at the new Civic/RS models - Honda 86'd one of the most technically advanced suspensions in the world for a pair of struts. Why? Direct quote from their product planners -"We found the most common Civic buyer is a 22 year old named Jennifer, and Jennifer neither understands nor cares about the advantages of a double wishbone suspension." When Toyota unveiled the new Sienna minivan, they didn't tout Toyota reliability, they cited the number of cupholders. Rent a DVD of the movie "Ruthless People" and check out the scenes with Judge Reinhold selling stereos for a better illustration than I can ever make. In the marketplace, crap is what sells, and if you put the right label on it, it sells at a premium. Tucker did not spur Detroit to improve things; the government eventually mandated his safety improvements.
Yes, you may find enough students for yourself, but you're one small operator, and I doubt Robin Leach is going to showcase your digs anytime soon. As for your statements about what shops pay staff, most of the people I know who teach do it to get in the water on a regular basis and to pay for their own equipment and diving, not to make a living. I can tell you that the shop I mentioned with the 8 week course pays their instructors better than other shops, and is still price-competitive. Their course format is more conducive to joint offering of the course with a recreational facility (one night a week, usually after the pool is closed for general use), whereas doing the course over one weekend requires a level of pool access for which most pool owners would charge a hefty fee. Oh, and what you said about the cost range of college tuition being small - in Cleveland, last time I priced it out, CWRU's tuition was 900% higher than CSU's.
There's no escaping the fact that the marketplace rewards sleaze. Don't get me wrong, I'm a strict free market guy, but I fully acknowledge that the benefits of a free market economy come at a price. Unlike those who want to dive without complete training, I accept that all good things come with a cost.
