LDS says My Torus 26 doesnt have enough LIFT
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Don't get me wrong, I see plenty of those too.
Just saying that it's quite possible for a diver to have a wing that's sufficient in theory, but insufficient in practice.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
If the diver is properly weighted for cold water single tank diving, i.e. eyelevel at the surface with no gas in their wing and a full cylinder then:
They have 100% of their wing's capacity to get their chin out of the water. That requires only a fraction of capacity of a 26, or 30 lbs wing.
The impacts of a buoyancy failure are pretty small as the diver is not relying on their wing to remain at the surface.
At the end of the dive the diver will be lighter by the weight of the gas they consumed, meaning they will be positively buoyant at the surface even when their wing is empty.
The diver needs enough wing to:
1) Float their rig when it is at it's most negative, when their cylinder is full. Sea conditions have little impact on this, if the rig is less than 26 lbs negative a 26 lbs wing will float it.
2) Have enough lift to compensate for the maximum possible change in buoyancy of their exposure suit.
If the diver is properly weighted and has not placed 100% of their ballast on their rig the buoyancy of the suit will dictate wing size.
Comfort at the surface is improved for the properly weighted diver, they need less gas in *ANY* size wing to get their chin out of the water.
Huge wings don't really help much to raise an over weighted diver out of the water, any portion of the wing that is above the surface offers no lift as it displaces no water. Big wings pretty quickly reach a point of diminishing returns.
Getting the weighting right, and the ballast distribution right pays far bigger returns than an over sized wing.
Far too often is see divers choosing a larger wing to solve an over weighting issue.
Tobin
MonkSeal
Contributor
Obviously, your destiny is to explain same things over and over again
When did a 30lb wing start to qualify as "huge" in your book Tobin?
Again, I'm not suggesting that the OP needs a 90lb OMS wing with double bladders. Merely saying that there are plenty of times where a 26lb wing is not sufficient in the real world, even though a spreadsheet might suggest it is plenty.
For instance keeping your chin out of the water for a few moments during a weight check at a quarry is very different than keeping your chin out of the water for 10-15min in 4' seas while waiting for a live boat to pick you up. Especially if you also needed to adjust your buoyancy for a load you might have picked up during your dive, like, say... a bag of scallops... or maybe your buddy?
Mike Boswell
Contributor
I don't think the OP is suggesting that he is grossly overweighted or needs a huge wing - let's give the guy and his LDS the benefit of assuming they aren't nitwits.
I measured both a 30-lb and a 40-Lb. Oxycheq wing, deflated, and the 40-lb is the same height as a 30# wing, but about an inch wider. You couldn't really tell the difference betwen the two without looking at the labels or using a measuring tape.
So - What is the benefit of a smaller wing? Weight, bulk, or less drag in the water? I doubt it. Cost? They cost the same.
Simply put, I can't see ANY real downside to a larger 40-Lb. wing.
I measured both a 30-lb and a 40-Lb. Oxycheq wing, deflated, and the 40-lb is the same height as a 30# wing, but about an inch wider. You couldn't really tell the difference betwen the two without looking at the labels or using a measuring tape.
So - What is the benefit of a smaller wing? Weight, bulk, or less drag in the water? I doubt it. Cost? They cost the same.
Simply put, I can't see ANY real downside to a larger 40-Lb. wing.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
When did I say 30 = huge? I have seen divers struggling with huge wings far more often than divers having trouble due to too small a wing.
There is really two issues, enough lift to keep the diver at the surface vs trying to lift the diver high out of the water.
If a given wing cannot keep the diver at the surface it may be too small, if the diver is properly weighted.
OTOH, trying to get a diver's sternum out of the water is counterproductive with *ANY* wing.
Any part of any inflatable that is above the surface of the water provides no lift as it displaces no water. The large wing becomes less and less effective as the dive adds gas.
If the diver is properly weighted they need only a tiny bit of gas in any wing to be comfortable at the surface.
Why would any recreational single tank diver ever need to be 20, or 30 lbs negative at the surface? That's just dangerous.
Most game is close to neutral, and the diver will be less negative by the weight of the gas they burned actually collecting the lobsters or shell fish. It's a damn big bag of scallops that is 6-7 lbs negative in the water.
Not really a good practice to use one's BC as a lift bag anyway........
Tobin
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DivingPrincessE
Contributor
Why the snippy into to your response Tobin? :huh: I don't see anywhere in the OP's post where he was asking for YOUR advice. Just b/c he is diving your product doesn't mean he only wants your opinion. I would have thought the first line of the OP that says "hello all" would have made that clear.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
I do have to wonder what your goals are in making such a post. How does it add to the discussion?
I never assumed the OP was seeking my advice, but if he was there is a more reliable way do so.
Snippy? no, just a friendly suggestion. Some forum users don't realize there are manufacturers forums. I try to see every DSS related post, but I may miss some.
While the OP may not have asked for my advice other posters in this thread expressed interest in my opinion.
Tobin
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