LDS Package Discount

[Rutger]

I don't know that this is a fair scenario. If you walked into a car dealership and said "I want to test drive a car so I can order one through another dealer," you probably wouldn't be greeted with open arms.

This is a bad example actually. Dealers are networked and as their profit actually comes from a) manufacturer's discounts and b) service / warranty work, they will absolutely pull a car from another lot if you want it in green or with 4 headlights instead of two.

Back on topic of course...

I think the successful dive shops realize that the way consumers conduct themselves is changing. There will be people that walk into a store, plunk down a CC and make a purchase without even shopping around, there will continue to be those that don't even buy until the item they want goes on sale, and there will be those that spend 4 hours of there time and $50 worth of gas to drive to every store in a 20 mile radius to check stock and prices. These people will continue as well people that search the net and buy sight-unseen from an online retailer for "50% discount", bitch and whine when it shows up wrong size or older inventory, send it back, get another one 4 weeks later, and still think they got a deal at the price.

Not everyone considers their time, effort and travel costs as part of the sale. Nor do they consider the value a stocking retailer provides at the local level. HOWEVER, the reality is that local stocking retailers have to find a way to eke out a living in the new world of retail sales. If they can't do that, then they lose and online resellers win.

I take offense to the reseller above complaining about people coming into is store, checking size and fit and then leaving. When faced with a willing customer, who wants your product and has cash to spend; if you cannot "sell" them on the value of buying your product off the shelf while they are there, then either your sales skills suck or they were never a customer in the first place. Either way, its not the customer's fault they didn't buy at your store. They knew what they wanted, they knew what fair-market value of the item was through research and competetive shopping.

It may hurt your ego that they didn't buy, but at least they were honest with you about it. Many people would have told you they were still "browsing" and would come back later, or that they didn't like the color or whatever.

The reality is that EVERY retailer faces a situation where someone will have a product you sell, at a price you cannot afford to match, for reasons you cannot control. How you deal with this reality will speak to your long-term success in retail sales.

As a customer, My Job is to acquire the most amount of "stuff" of the highest function and quality, for the best VALUE I can find. Your's is to find out how to provide the things that I value, and am willing to part with my money for.

 

[drdaddy]

Okay- here is the update - I have gear!!

The shop came down on the BC and the computer but said the reg couldn't be discounted. They also threw in a reg bag, a computer bag, a dive log, a computer class, 6 months of Saturday pool dives with air so I'm happy. The price ended up being within $200 of online and I feel that with the dives thrown in that more than covers the extra price- plus I have a relationship with the LDS that is stronger. When I went in today I got in the pool and tried like 4 different BCs and two different regs. They were super helpful.

As to the post about people coming in and trying stuff just to go buy it online - I can't begin to tell you how opposed to that I am. In college I managed the tack shop (horse stuff) and we often had the same problem. It is one of the rudest things someone can do, but believe me when they needed a favor or something went wrong with their internet gear- we were not there to help -you may pay a little more locally but the service you get should more than make up for it.

I'm excited that now on the dive next Saturday I'll have my own stuff. Yea!

Thanks for everyone's help

Lauren

Welcome to diving and Scuba Board!!!

I am a firm believer of buying from your LDS, but I don't believe in getting ripped off. Every time I have gone to my LDS, Eugene Skin Divers Supply, they have have given me a great deal and also happily service all of my equipment. When I say all, I mean even the stuff I have picked up from Craigslist!!! I tell them where, when, and even who I bought it from. It sometimes turns out that they know they know the person (a former or even present customer).

Now, if I were to go somewhere else like some other dive shop or LeisurePro and not give them a chance - well, I feel that would be disloyalty to a shop that has really treated me well. Oh, and since they are not in my home town (no LDS here) and I must get air from the beach I dive at, I tell both of them that I will shop the other one for both the best deal when necessary. Maybe this sounds like too much information to give to a "business", but I view this as a "relationship" and integrity is important. That's why, when I walk in (or even call them/by my voice) they say, "Hi William" and I say, Hi Mike, John, Ron, or Ed (best tech in the Pacific NW)!

Think about "Long Term Relationship" when you find a great dive shop. Something that doesn't happen well on the internet.

 

[atedeschi]

So, you believe that had you said you would match the online dealer's price, the customer wouild have walked anyway?

Even the guy who was looking for different gear, he gave you the opportunity to sell him on your lines, but it didn't work out. Maybe he really wanted oranges or maybe the oranges were better in his judgment.

they did walk away, and they may have not bought anything. The person that was not comparing the same gear was comparing prices of cheaper gear, like unbalanced regs vs balanced regs with adjustable second stages.

This is a bad example actually. Dealers are networked and as their profit actually comes from a) manufacturer's discounts and b) service / warranty work, they will absolutely pull a car from another lot if you want it in green or with 4 headlights instead of two.

Back on topic of course...

I think the successful dive shops realize that the way consumers conduct themselves is changing. There will be people that walk into a store, plunk down a CC and make a purchase without even shopping around, there will continue to be those that don't even buy until the item they want goes on sale, and there will be those that spend 4 hours of there time and $50 worth of gas to drive to every store in a 20 mile radius to check stock and prices. These people will continue as well people that search the net and buy sight-unseen from an online retailer for "50% discount", bitch and whine when it shows up wrong size or older inventory, send it back, get another one 4 weeks later, and still think they got a deal at the price.

Not everyone considers their time, effort and travel costs as part of the sale. Nor do they consider the value a stocking retailer provides at the local level. HOWEVER, the reality is that local stocking retailers have to find a way to eke out a living in the new world of retail sales. If they can't do that, then they lose and online resellers win.

I take offense to the reseller above complaining about people coming into is store, checking size and fit and then leaving. When faced with a willing customer, who wants your product and has cash to spend; if you cannot "sell" them on the value of buying your product off the shelf while they are there, then either your sales skills suck or they were never a customer in the first place. Either way, its not the customer's fault they didn't buy at your store. They knew what they wanted, they knew what fair-market value of the item was through research and competetive shopping.

It may hurt your ego that they didn't buy, but at least they were honest with you about it. Many people would have told you they were still "browsing" and would come back later, or that they didn't like the color or whatever.

The reality is that EVERY retailer faces a situation where someone will have a product you sell, at a price you cannot afford to match, for reasons you cannot control. How you deal with this reality will speak to your long-term success in retail sales.

As a customer, My Job is to acquire the most amount of "stuff" of the highest function and quality, for the best VALUE I can find. Your's is to find out how to provide the things that I value, and am willing to part with my money for.

Didn't hurt my ego I dont own the shop or make a commision. But its annoying when you spend time with customers explaining everything and fitting them and saying I can try and work out a package and they just think because they come on boards like this they can get it online cheaper. Hey I buy stuff online and other shops if I need it right away or we don't care something, but your LDS make their living on big items, regs, BCDs, and computers. Plus like the OP you build a relationship with a LDS and like many of our normal customers have a automatic 10% discount and if they have issues we will fix it right then if we can and only charge for parts of not covered.

 

[theduckguru]

In scuba, the best values find the customer who has done his homework.

 

[ReefHound]

they did walk away, and they may have not bought anything. The person that was not comparing the same gear was comparing prices of cheaper gear, like unbalanced regs vs balanced regs with adjustable second stages.

But if this guy apparently has no understanding or concern over quality then why didn't you start showing him comparable level gear and matching his prices?

 

[atedeschi]

Don't carry cheap divers direct brands or cheaper brands, we carry dive rite oceanic aqualung and mares BCDs. It doesnt pay to carry the cheaper stuff because when it doesn't hold up then we screwed them, I did show them are lowest quality stuff but he kept looking at the better. It was just annoying and some people just don't get that because they look the same they are not, even when explained the differences.

You can win them all and I understand, but don't go some place with no intention of buying just to gain the knowledge of the particular item and size to buy it elsewhere. Don't get me wrong feel free to come in ask question about gear etc, but dont just use the LDS as a fitting room and nothing more.

 

[hunter_williams]

I must admit I haven't purchased anything online yet, but have come bloody close considering the good exchange rates at the moment between NZ and the States... but when looking at purchasing my gear I went into my LDS plus one or two others outside of my local region... I asked questions, looked at and handled gear, even tried a couple of BC's on...

I was honest in my approach as I wanted some form of negotiation so that I too could get the best gear for the best price... and it worked!

I ended up buying my gear through my LDS, not just for the price (which was still slightly more expensive than online), but for the fact that each time I went in I was greeted by my name....

The small things count, and anyone writing off a potential customer just because they have some intention of shopping online should leave the retail business.... people want all they can get for less these days...

 

[ReefHound]

You seem to be saying two things, that he came there to pump you for knowledge with no intention of buying, and that he didn't understand the differences in quality between what you carry and what he was viewing online. But if you didn't have the price point he was after, maybe he simply had no intention of buying your higher price point? That's not the same thing as having no intention of buying at all. How was he to know you didn't deal with the cheaper brands? I also don't see how you can accuse someone of using you as a fitting room or knowledge center if the gear they are looking elsewhere for isn't even comparable.

Personally, I don't buy the "doesn't hold up" argument as the unbalanced Sherwood Brut is or was at one time the most popular rental reg due to it's reliability and "bomb-proof" design. It sounds like you just don't care to serve the whole spectrum of consumers and that's fine but don't complain when the bottom feeders shop elsewhere. Those bottom feeders may one day be premium shoppers once they become more knowledgeable and experienced.

Of course, it's possible those guys were just problem customers but did you expect to never have any? Every business in every segment has it's problem customers. Fact of life, don't stress over it.

 

[rrweather]

This is a bad example actually. Dealers are networked and as their profit actually comes from a) manufacturer's discounts and b) service / warranty work, they will absolutely pull a car from another lot if you want it in green or with 4 headlights instead of two.

You changed the "scenario."

Most car dealers would gladly get a car from another dealer to sell you. They trade cars with another dealer and they sell a customer a car. No dealer would prefer that you come to their dealership, shop for cars, test drive cars, then go buy the car through another dealership. Sure dealers profit from servicing cars, but they would prefer to sell you a car AND make money servicing your car. In fact, dive shops are similar to car dealerships. Some get manufacturer's discounts (bulk orders) and all of them make a profit by you bringing in your gear for servicing. Obviously any dive shop would be happy to service your gear and make a profit doing so; however, ALL dive shops would prefer to sell you the product first, then have you come back for servicing.

I'm not a blind LDS supporter. I think some are fighting the inevitable (online dive shops and the way they operate). I also think some are losing customers because they mark all of their products at MSRP and offer no discounts or incentives. I do think that some buyers forget that there is value in being able to walk into a shop and try gear on. After all, they are there to do it so they must get some sort of satisfaction out of it. Some buyers forget that there is value in being able to walk into a shop and get help with the gear they bought. Things like product support and the ability to try gear on before you buy should be factored in when comparing prices. If you only look at the price, then more often than not, shopping online will get you the lowest prices. If you consider overall value, then the LDS may provide something that compares to the online shops. In some cases, the LDS may actually provide a better value than the online shop when all additional "perks" are factored in. It is up to each customer to look at the total value of what the LDS is offering and compare it to the value of what the online store offers. I don't think there is anything wrong with a LDS owner getting frustrated with a customer coming in and wanting to get sized up for gear he or she has no intention of buying through the shop. That being said, if a customer gives the LDS a legitimate shot at the sale and the LDS can't deliver, then the customer should buy where they think they get the best value for their money.

 

[redacted]

Obviously any dive shop would be happy to service your gear and make a profit doing so; however, ALL dive shops would prefer to sell you the product first, then have you come back for servicing.

Don't bet on that. There are shops that refuse to service gear based on where it was purchased. Other may attempt to punish through ridiculously inflated prices. Many dive shops are run by divers who are not businessmen.

A local Aqualung shop told me how the AL distributor encouraged him to refuse to service any AL regulator that was not purchased from an authorized dealer. AL provides their authorized dealers a data base to look up such information.