Latest ScubaLabs reg test - huh?

[tbone1004]

please pardon my n00bness, but why isn't the HOG Zenith on the list? It seems to review amoung the best. As a DIYer I'm attracted to the HOGs for the self-service (once I take the class at my LDS, of course).

Is there still a shunning attitude toward the HOGs for making self-service so accessible, or do you think their omission is more innocent, i.e. they can only review so many, and all the others are still more popular?

The zenith came out a few years ago so wouldn't be on the "new list". They included 3 regulators on the list that are self-serviceable from the manufacturer, 2 of which offer factory authorized training.
Dive Rite has always offered parts to any of the divers though no courses available.
Poseidon released a factory authorized service course last year that is available to anyone. They have reg training in Chicago on 2/16/18 at Our World Underwater fwiw
Deep6 doesn't have any regs that are out of warranty right now, but Chris et all will be doing the same thing with Deep6 that he did with HOG by offering training.

The Deep6 Signature is basically a Version 2.0 of the HOG Zenith. It is the same basic design but has some minor tweaks that make it a bit better than the Zenith. Parts kits are interchangeable on the regulators fwiw. If you are looking at HOG for that reason, the Deep6 will breathe a bit better and are of a bit higher quality due to the internal material improvements, and represent a better value since they include the first service for free and also include the first set of parts kits for free

 

[ams511]

please pardon my n00bness, but why isn't the HOG Zenith on the list? It seems to review amoung the best. As a DIYer I'm attracted to the HOGs for the self-service (once I take the class at my LDS, of course).

Is there still a shunning attitude toward the HOGs for making self-service so accessible, or do you think their omission is more innocent, i.e. they can only review so many, and all the others are still more popular?

The manufacturer needs to submit the regulator for testing. I am not sure but there may be a waiting period before a regulator can be retested. The Hog Zenith was either a best buy or testers choice a few years back.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Many people have posted here on SB about how great the Deep6 regs are and I trust that more than ScubaLabs reviews. So, what I am asking is how are they doing their tests to produce results that seem to be so different than real world results (as reflected in SB member posts/opinions)?

My 2c which may not be popular, but may give an insight...

When peopel buy new gear they are of course positive about it. It's rare for people with an interest to buy something without out research. Also for most, the new regs are their main regs so it's hard to do a side by side.

I was given the oportunity to try a D6 reg, and I posted about it. I tried it on a few dives rigging it as a Stage/pony and using it alongside my AL Lux supreme

There were things I didn't like on the first dives.. The mouthpiece was one, so I changed to a AL one to match my other regs and did a few more dives.

Ther ewere still things I didn't like, the Din wheel could have had a better grip was one the venturi adjustment that required 1.5 turns against my current 0.75 turn etc etc.

Now before I get flamed I said these were personal preferences, and compared to what I was used to which is an important factor.

Also I said I could tell a difference in the reg breathing the AL felt "smoother"

However you could probablyu put both regs on a test bench and not see a difference in the numbers, however I thought I could feel a difference. And thats what mattered to me.

I also noted than my AL cost $600 more (US MSRP prices) and that it woul dbe hard to justify the extra cash.

I do recomend the regs as I thin kthey are a fine bit of kit for the price point. I wouldn't buy one at the moment (mainly becaus eI can't be faffed with the overseas shipping and the D6 service kits and self service doesn't really apply to me)

So my poin there is, you can yes test gear on machines, but in the end it does come down to very subjective views of the testers, what they are used to and their personal bias. YOu try not to but it will slip in there sub conciously

So I guess this could be one reason

 

[ams511]

Is West Marine that big to make a difference for Mares?

They have over 200 stores, so maybe.But I don't see someone walking into the store and spending $800 on a set of Dacor regulators.

 

[mbs]

Is West Marine that big to make a difference for Mares?

Oh yea! It's a tossup if I'm in more trouble walking into West marine or Leisurepro

 

[wheeledgoat]

ahhh, thank you kind gentlemen. I suppose I failed to realize how long the zenith has been out. Somehow I had thought it was newer, maybe I read an old thread. Byproduct of newcomers, eh?

on one hand, i'm glad to see the self-service trend catching on. just hope it doesn't take too big a chunk out of the LDS.

 

[scubadada]

I want a regulator which always works rather than one which usually works. I want one which can handle peak, worst case demands, not average demands. It only has to fail to keep up once.

FYI, post a CO2 hit I am supposed to plan bailout use at an RMV of 45l/min. So these numbers are not wildly excessive.

This thread is a textbook example of why viral marketing works.

the 62rmv is certainly worth doing for CCR bailout conditions when experiencing hypercapnia, that one I'll give you. Probably why it is the CE requirement as it is just over 2cfm. Enough to stress the first stage for two divers in excited conditions and one diver trying to destroy the tank.
That said, the results are going to be skewed because of regulator orientation. I think the machines are designed with the body vertical to replicate commercial diving conditions not recreational diving conditions.
If you look at the A700 from Scubapro it doesn't perform as well as the G260 or the S600 and there are a bunch of other case designs where the regulator orientation weighs in heavily on how well it will perform.

@KenGordon, the 45 l/min (1.6 cf/min) exceeds the test values at a RMV of 37.5 l/min. Thanks for the example. As I said in my post, I also want the flexibility and leeway offered by a high performance regulator, to effectively handle extraordinary demands.

The other variable is depth. The routine testing by ScubaLab goes down to 198 fsw, plenty for us recreational divers, maybe not so much for technical divers. The ANSTI test equipment goes to a maximum depth of 100 msw (328 fsw). Some of the regulators underwent testing at greater depths. As an example, the Scubapro MK25 EVO/S620 Ti received a very good work of breathing at an RMV of 75 l/min (2.65 cf/min) at "more than 300 feet".

 

[ams511]

They wouldn't have to buy the name and set up production if Mares produced the Dacor brand exclusively for West Marine. This would give Mares a new clientele, and West Marine a line of products they haven't had. My money is on this solution. Bob

Bob you may well be right. Looking at the regs in the photo I can't tell if they are re-branded Mares regulators or maybe something from ODS. I am not sure why Mares purchased Dacor. They kept very few products (like the Viper regs) and upset a ton of divers that had older Dacor regulators when they stopped making the service kits. They did nothing with the brand until now.

I am not sure what kind of clientele West would bring to the table. If people are divers then I would assume they would shop at a dive shop or online. If they are looking for something to clean their boat underwater they do not need to spend $800-900 to do so.

 

[ams511]

@KenGordon, the 45 l/min (1.6 cf/min) exceeds the test values at a RMV of 37.5 l/min. Thanks for the example. As I said in my post, I also want the flexibility and leeway offered by a high performance regulator, to effectively handle extraordinary demands.

The other variable is depth. The routine testing by ScubaLab goes down to 198 fsw, plenty for us recreational divers, maybe not so much for technical divers. The ANSTI test equipment goes to a maximum depth of 100 msw (328 fsw). Some of the regulators underwent testing at greater depths. As an example, the Scubapro MK25 EVO/S620 Ti received a very good work of breathing at an RMV of 75 l/min (2.65 cf/min) at "more than 300 feet".

I would assume that most technical divers would switch to a helium based mixture when diving deep. Because of the difference in atomic weight between helium and nitrogen, the helium mix will flow much better at depth than air would.

 

[scubadada]

ahhh, thank you kind gentlemen. I suppose I failed to realize how long the zenith has been out. Somehow I had thought it was newer, maybe I read an old thread. Byproduct of newcomers, eh?

on one hand, i'm glad to see the self-service trend catching on. just hope it doesn't take too big a chunk out of the LDS.

The Hog Zenith was a Tester's Choice in the under $500 category in 2014 SCUBALAB 2014: Regulator Review

There are several past regulator reviews on Scuba Diving Magazine under Gear/Regulators, at least back to 2012, maybe further.