Jill Heinerth training video

[Jaydubya]

I don't think that's the same class...at 5:04 they're running a jump, and video posted earlier was a basic cave class.

Looks like a lost buddy search to me.

To the OP:

Running a reel into the ear is a rite of passage for cavern and intro students and you do need to enter the ear negative or you won't make it in. Or at least I can't. Once inside and tied in, as someone mentioned, you become neutral and pull and glide high up on the left wall.

I have seen people with exemplary skills in open water who go out of trim and lose buoyancy control when confronted with high flow for the first time. I think you should give the student a break. Clearly single tank yellow fins is not ready to move on to apprentice/full yet but as long as she sticks to limitations she probably won't kill herself or screw up the cave. This was "Intro" to cave after all.

It looked like a good class from my perspective and should not in any way reflect badly on the instructor.

 

[Jax]

Why is Veronica in a cave with a single tank and no backup/pony?

The cylinder is fitted with an H-Valve... which standards allow.

Which baffles me. I've been through the cave curriculum and still don't understand what value allowing a single tank into an overhead environment provides.

Perhaps, if someone wasn't sure s/he wanted to become a full cave diver, the opportunity to add "just" an H-valve to their long-hose setup would give them an opportunity to do cavern without a huge outlay of expense. The resulting consequences of someone buying all the stuff, then finding cavern isn't for them, and spewing aggravation all over isn't worth forcing a student into full cave gear right off the bat. The poor publicity isn't worth it. (Business case thoughts)

In an effort to not discourage the OP from asking questions in the future, I'd like to believe the question was phrased poorly due to ignorance. I know I don't know *blip* about caving, hence needing to be told about the H-valve being allowed.

Agreed -- Perhaps Beni had experienced other cave divers that spoke of the need for absolute buoyancy and trim control, and was taken aback.

I was startled, at first, until you all explained the situation at Ginnie. Let's give the OP a break, huh?

 

[EastTNDiver]

I'm sure glad nobody has ever videoed me trying to run line in through the Eye. Or the Ear. It's never pretty, unless David Rhea does it, and I think he uses mirrors.

Mexican cave diving is all finesse and elegance and never touching anything. Florida high flow cave diving is survival. I know how that woman with the reel felt, and I don't criticize her at all.

I've never met David, but have heard some local stories that support your statement above. I do business with, and train with, his old shop, Rhea's Diving, in Maryville, TN, which is now owned and operated by Alan Williams. I will be doing my Cavern and Intro to Cave with Alan the first week of October. I have been warned about the flow and the need to pull and glide while entering the Ear...and, the ensuing bloody fingers if you don't get it right.

My closest dive buddy and I will be taking the class with one other local diver, who we consider to be a fair bit more advanced than we are. However, Alan tells us that Ginnie has a way of putting everyone back on a more or less level playing field. My buddy and I have been drilling our butts off in prep for this class, but I sure hope no one is shooting video during our first entry. :shocked2:

 

[shagyluke]

another thing that might be concidered is that Veronica is exstremly small framed and petite. Ive only seen someone diving in double 45's once but being in the company she was in and considering that she probably has a .3 rmv, anyone could have probably air shared with her the whole cave dive and never reached 1/6 of the gas supply needed. In doing our full cave class which was mostly done at Peacock in P1, I seen more than one pair of teams which had a single lp 108 as a gas supply. I have met Jill on a couple of accausians and I know her skill level is and respect from the community is second to none so I take offence to the OP original post when he/she probably doesnt know WTH he/she is talking about....



Just my .02 take it for what its worth

 

[ucfdiver]

another thing that might be concidered is that Veronica is exstremly small framed and petite. Ive only seen someone diving in double 45's once but being in the company she was in and considering that she probably has a .3 rmv, anyone could have probably air shared with her the whole cave dive and never reached 1/6 of the gas supply needed. In doing our full cave class which was mostly done at Peacock in P1, I seen more than one pair of teams which had a single lp 108 as a gas supply. I have met Jill on a couple of accausians and I know her skill level is and respect from the community is second to none so I take offence to the OP original post when he/she probably doesnt know WTH he/she is talking about....



Just my .02 take it for what its worth

What does someone's size or sac have to do with not using a redundant gas source? I must have missed that during cave/trimix training

 

[Jax]

What does someone's size or sac have to do with not using a redundant gas source? I must have missed that during cave/trimix training

Not a danged thing. However, NACD's standards for Cavern Diver Training are: (NACD Training)

Minimum Equipment: Mask, fins, 60 cubic foot or greater single cylinder, single hose regulator with an octopus and submersible pressure gauge, exposure suit suitable for diving location, BC with power inflator, slate and tables, knife, timing device, appropriate weight, reel, two battery powered lights.

 

[TSandM]

I could understand the OP, having read about cave diving and how critical technique is, watching this video and wondering just what the heck is up with the class, and an instructor who is tolerating this behavior. If you haven't been in Ginnie, you have no idea what those divers are facing.

It is also very tempting to judge an instructor on the quality of one or a few students, but doing that is very simplistic. I used to ride with an instructor who was quite simply a genius; he had taught Olympic riders, taught at the Spanish Riding School (the Mecca for my sport) and gotten bored with it all. In his older years, he amused himself by trying to make silk purses out of sows' ears. If you watched one of his clinics, you'd decide he was a fraud, because most of the riders were poor. But he welcomed that challenge, to do what he could with flawed raw material.

Instructors have little control over the quality of the material they are given; they only have real control over what they pass on. And only on the day they do the "passing". I'd be reluctant to make a conclusion about any instructor unless I had seen a number of students with the same flaws, or unless I had watched them teach, or taken a class from them.

 

[LiteHedded]

GADZOOKS!

surely that could have been spotted a mile away before they were allowed in a cave?

 

[shagyluke]

What does someone's size or sac have to do with not using a redundant gas source? I must have missed that during cave/trimix training

It has nothing to do with it. Im just saying that her size might have kept her from being able to dive with doubles. Just like from you and everyone else on this post, everything is speculation at this point...

 

[ucfdiver]

It has nothing to do with it. Im just saying that her size might have kept her from being able to dive with doubles. Just like from you and everyone else on this post, everything is speculation at this point...

Body size has nothing to do with not needing redundancy, I'm not even sure what you're trying to imply.