Jill Heinerth training video

[PfcAJ]

Why do you find that disturbing? What exactly is wrong with the student's kit configuration?

The long hose coming off the left post on that H valve kinda stood out to me...

Imo, people need to be good at diving in OW (trim, buoyancy, propulsion, basic line handling) before bringing it into the caves. If that's average...well... it shouldn't be.

 

[Dsix36]

I'm sorry but I find your "get over yourself" comment very underserved. I do not think highly of my diving-skills, and I don't even try to hide the fact that I'm a very unexperienced diver.

Your position can be understood and justified, but let me highlight the situation from another point of view. If I took a CCR Instructor course with 25 dives under my belt, I'm sure I would learn a bunch from it and I'm sure my instructor would kindly point out my shortcomings during the class but probably outside observers would shake their heads in disapproval. But hey: who is to blame? I payed for it and I only want to get better and pursue my dreams of becoming a CCR instructor right after receiving my OW certification. The instructor on the other hand does everything in his power to guide me through the excercises and help me to get better. So why can't I take that class?

The job of an insturctor in my opinion also includes making sure that the student is up to the task before taking her money or at least before leading her into the cave (hence the prerequisites), and that girl is clearly not 10 dives away from possesing above-averag buoyancy control skills, which I believe should be essential for diving in this environment. I'm not questioning that she is a good teacher, but I don't think there is any other reason for allowing that girl to take that class other than money.

Anyways: if you think that crawling trough the tunnels is what an average diver would do in that situation, than I clearly made a mistake of pointing that out, pardon my harsh opinion and this topic can be closed... I meant that in an ironic way at first, but I can perfectly understand the instructor's decision even if it's contrary to the view I look at training in general.

I have spoken with Jill about just this kind of thing and I assure you that She is not just doing it for the money and She has no problem with failing a student. She will even refuse to teach if the student can't survive the first orientation dives before getting into the cave.

The dive site in the video is at Ginnie Springs and as much as I hate to admit this - it is kind of a sacrificial cave for training classes. There is normally a very high flow and it can be a real bit*h to try and navigate when you are a new diver. I know that I frickin' hated the place after I finished my class and didn't think that I would ever go back.

Yes, the student in question had some issues. We do not know how things progressed for the rest of the dives. Do we even know if there was another dive or if the students got there c-cards?

When I finally passed the cave class, that merely meant that I had enough training to continue learning and improving. It did not, by any means, mean that I was Mr. Perfect Cave Diver (although anyone who has been in the water with me will know differently <smile> ).

I am just thinking that we need to hold rash judgements until all the facts are know. There is no reason to trash a damn good instructors reputation without rock solid reasoning.

Jill, can we negotiate my weekly support check? Just kiddin.

 

[shagyluke]

I can tell you from diving Ginnie that it is a grab and pull cave. The flow is unreal. Me and my wife got to dive it twice in April when we got our full cave from Richard Dreher (Instructor). The first dive we almost didnt make it in because the flow was so extreme. When you get down to the warning sign and tie off you have to acend to the ceiling to even swim through it and then you have to decend to the bottom where it is a grab and pull for a good ways before you can frog kick the rest of the way in. Richard had warned us on using proper technique to pulling or you would surface with bloody fingers. If you have never dove in Ginnie which obviously you havent, then maybe you shouldnt say anything. I think these people that were in training did alot better than me and my wife did on our first dive there. Ginnie is an amazing cave and I cant wait to get back in Oct...

 

[shagyluke]

Diving Peacock Florida Underwater Cave with Jill Heinerth by Ramon Llaneza - YouTube

Also you can see from the cave dive at Peacock 1 that Jill did a fine job and looks like that all received there cave Cert.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I'm glad there aren't any videos of me on youtube from my AN/DP class.
You never look as good as you think you do when you are in a class.

-Mitch

 

[Heath Sapp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJY0daxiHA&feature=player_embedded#!

Hey guys! I came across this video, which I found pretty "disturbing" and wanted to ask your opinions on it.
Can anyone explain the horrible buoyancy skills demonstated in the video (not to mention the equipment setup) before I loose all respect for the instructor? A kind fellow forum user pointed out that it's one thing to enroll in a class ... passing it is a different story.

Note: I'm only an OW diver, but I would like to get into cave diving eventually so I'm pretty interested in the subject.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Is that why the single tank yellow fins seemed to hold on to the rock, and use her knees?

The briefing being given felt very much like the first briefing (and S drill) of the course. Therefore this was probably all new to the students.

I did some of my course at Ginnie. Agreed that this is where I was thrown to the wolves to experience "a little flow". I was the lucky winner that got first attempt at running line through the eye (which is where I think this was).

As this was my first flow dive and I was running the reel my instructor suggested that I become negatively bouyant while running the line. I used my hands to pull and manage the reel and my knees when I needed both hands to place the line (without holding on I would have been blown out of the cave by the flow) Once tied in to the gold line we were to get neutral and move to the ceiling while using pull and glide.

If these students had a briefing anything like mine, then while not particularly graceful, these students were doing what I was told would be most effective in these conditions. (Incidentally what worried me most was someone getting caught up in the line while merely following it, but then we don't know what the instructor's debriefing was after the dive either).

 

[TSandM]

I'm sure glad nobody has ever videoed me trying to run line in through the Eye. Or the Ear. It's never pretty, unless David Rhea does it, and I think he uses mirrors.

Mexican cave diving is all finesse and elegance and never touching anything. Florida high flow cave diving is survival. I know how that woman with the reel felt, and I don't criticize her at all.

 

[deepair]

Right there with you! I am glad there are no videos of me and a couple different people, who will remain nameless, going into Devil's Ear!

I know guys who go through the EYE instead, just because it is easier to get in.

 

[rongoodman]

I can just imagine the howls of laughter at a video of me trying to deploy the back-up bungee in my Razor the first time!