Integrated Octo or not?

[Token]

The folks at your LDS are 2-to-1 in favor of the AIR2 (or similar) because they sell it.
...

I'd recommend putting your primary reg on a 5-ft. hose and your necklaced backup reg on a 22-inch or 24-inch hose. For air-sharing, you would donate your primary to the OOA diver and then go onto your necklaced backup.

FWIW, I'm not a tech diver. I'm just an average OW recreational diver, and this is how I have my reg set up.

+1

I had my new reg set [with a 5' primary hose] in the LDS pool the other day.... The LDS people found it kinda weird, but I really liked not having my face pulled to one side by a shorter primary hose. The 'donate your primary' strategy really makes sense to me.

My LDS has lots of Air2-type gadgets for sale... I've never used one, but to me they look like the kind of safety equipment people buy when they don't expect ever to use it. [I don't mean that to be provocative, so please don't hit me...]

 

[Lead_carrier]

Combo Oct. Um No.

No because its not for me. No because I do not want to have two failure points. No I would not suggest this to anyone.
Let me explain please.

Failure point. Faulty oring on said inflator hose. Sticking inflator...makes my wing inflate or not able to inflate via inflation hose . I have to disconnect the hose so as to not have a freeflow. I now have a useless Octo - I have to manually inflate it to control my buoyancy.

.

The arguments you have here Scarface don't really work out too well. The last time I looked a power inflator can have the same failures that an Air2 has and roughly the same amout of dynamic orings. If the inflator breaks on and Air2 it does not render the breathability of it useless.

What do I breath off if I have to donate my primary?
Yes I can share primary with a panicked diver...Um no. Have you seen the movie SACTUM?

Yes and it was a joke. If you're gonna use movies as an argument for equipment then at least get one that is closer to reality.

 

[halocline]

Many divers I know hardly ever use the inflator at all once the dive begins. If you are properly waited you really shouldn't have to add much if any air. I know I only use the inflator to add some air if I am waiting at the surface. Other than that I never use it.

I use it to add air which compensates for the weight of the gas at the beginning of the dive, then vent throughout the dive. I also use it to compensate for depth compression of the wetsuit. If you have 6 lbs of gas in your tank at the beginning of the dive, and 1 lb at the end, you have to compensate for that. You can use your lungs, but why not use the BC as it's intended, to compensate for changes in buoyancy.

My point is that inflator mechanisms are typically used FAR more frequently than alternate air sources. Do you really want to argue that? Consequently, if your inflator can be less bulky, less complicated, and on a more conveniently sized hose so that venting is easier, it's likely to have a positive impact on your diving. At least that's my experience. I've used an air2 and I find it less convenient and less comfortable than a smaller inflator on a shorter hose and an alternate on a bungie necklace.

 

[Paladin]

Okay, I'm going to do a little nitpicking here. Some of the posters here have called sharing an octo "buddy breathing." Nope. Buddy breathing is when you have only one second stage (or mouthpiece in the case of a double hose) to share and both divers have to breathe off the same second stage by passing it back and forth. Different skill set entirely. You guys need to watch more "Sea Hunt!"

I dive older (vintage or near vintage) equipment and, except for my new Conshelf 14 and my recently converted PRAM, my regs don't have a port for an octo. One of my favorite regs is an Aqua Lung Aquarius. It has one HP port and two LP ports. I can have my choice of a BC inflator hose or an octo, but I can't have both without an adapter and I don't really like using an adapter if I can keep from it. It's another o-ring to fail.

This isn't a problem with the local people I dive with because they've all been trained by the same guy, a man who won't hand you a C-card unless you demonstrate proficiency in several of the old skills, including buddy breathing off the same second stage.

Also, spell check time! Breath and Breathe. Not interchangeable. I took a breath. I need to breathe. Got it?

Okay, nitpicking session over. Have fun, guys!

 

[BDSC]

Also, spell check time! Breath and Breathe. Not interchangeable. I took a breath. I need to breathe. Got it?

You know I actually looked that up the other day to make sure I was using the correct spelling. I'm with you on this one!

 

[elan]

I'm on the side for the second on the neckless.

Integrated octo breaks modularity of the system. When I dive doubles, single BP with no wing or my wife's 20lb BCD down south I use hte same setup. Besides I use short corrigated hose bungied to my d-ring which puts it tight againsmy body and does not touch the corals when I want to look at something very close. I do not connect my inflator in less than 40 F water as it introduces an extra risk (I had real cases of inflator freesing) Air 2 does not fall into that picture well while bungied second is the same across the board in all configurations.

2 years ago I was looking a the same opton and wise people talked me out of it which I do not regret now as I now clearly see the negative sides through my own experience.

 

[BDSC]

My point is that inflator mechanisms are typically used FAR more frequently than alternate air sources. Do you really want to argue that?

I agree totally. For some, that very reson is why they do like the AIR II system and makes it a selling point for them. Because they are familiar with where the inflator is, it is just more natural to be able to quickly reach for it when needed in an emergency.

 

[blatter]

Integrated octo breaks modularity of the system. ...

That's why I have a number of these integrated inflators on single wing and wings for doubles so I can swap systems and keep using same regs.

... I do not connect my inflator in less than 40 F water as it introduces an extra risk (I had real cases of inflator freesing) ...

I have dived with an Apeks integrated octo in -1.5 C (colder than 30 F) in the Antarctic. I have never had to use one for real in such cold water but I did try it to make sure it worked OK - it did. Have also done a far bit of diving at around 40 F or colder. If freezing is a problem when inflating a BC I suspect that technique (use short bursts) and/or moist air might be a problem. I would not disconnect inflators unless there was a problem as that is just asking for cold stiff o-rings to fail when you reconnect them. How do you inflate your drysuit?

... Failure point. Faulty oring on said inflator hose. Sticking inflator...makes my wing inflate or not able to inflate via inflation hose . I have to disconnect the hose so as to not have a freeflow. I now have a useless Octo - I have to manually inflate it to control my buoyancy.

What do I breath off if I have to donate my primary?
Yes I can share primary with a panicked diver...

An excellent point, but I have to say that it is unlikely in the real world and while using integrated inflators for over 20 years/thousands of dives I have never been in this situation. The seals in the integrated octo inflator hoses I have used seem to be much more reliable than in a normal BC/drysuit inflator fitting o-ring. I have had some leaks, but never any catastrophic failures. The leaks I have had were annoying but did not result in a significant loss of air (and the fitting was completely repaired simply by soaking in warm water when I got home). In my experience the hose itself wears out and needs to be replaced before you need to worry about a serious leak developing at the fitting.

... The non standard inflator hose is clearly a good argument against it (I did see at least one post on SB where someone had a hassle on vacation because it broke and it was practically impossible to find a replacement)...

Another excellent point, but you can just keep a spare fitting or hose in your save a dive kit. You don't even need a spare hose, just the fitting, and this is a good idea even if you use a standard bc/drysuit inflator. It can be really hard trying to swap out a failed o-ring in one of these if you are on a rocking boat or in a hurry to catch a tide. Some of the places I dive it is impossible to even get a hose let alone one with any sort of bc fitting. Carrying spares is a good idea unless you are happy to miss dives due to gear failure.

It never fails to amuse me that someone thinks having one less hose is actually more convenient than a longer-than-necessary inflator hose and a much bulkier-than-necessary inflator mechanism. This is especially true considering that you need to use your alternate only occasionally, but are dealing with the inflator multiple times on every dive...

It must be good to be so easily amused

More seriously, the inflator hose I use is no longer than the hose I would use anyway, and you are losing the bulk of another second stage as well as another hose (well the hose itself is pretty insignificant on a dive I agree). The integrated octos I use are not that much bigger than a decent BC inflator and are easy to use. As with any such equipment, you need to learn where the buttons are and how to use it properly. For me, the normal BC inflators on one well known brand are for me too small to hold and use comfortably and more important are very very slow to inflate. That is important for me as I do a lot of cold water diving with a couple of heavy camera housings and I need to use the BC inflator a lot. But that is just my preference as of course many divers seem to get on just fine with that design.

 

[elan]

That's why I have a number of these integrated inflators on single wing and wings for doubles so I can swap systems and keep using same regs.


I have dived with an Apeks integrated octo in -1.5 C (colder than 30 F) in the Antarctic. I have never had to use one for real in such cold water but I did try it to make sure it worked OK - it did. Have also done a far bit of diving at around 40 F or colder. If freezing is a problem when inflating a BC I suspect that technique (use short bursts) and/or moist air might be a problem. I would not disconnect inflators unless there was a problem as that is just asking for cold stiff o-rings to fail when you reconnect them. How do you inflate your drysuit?

If I dive it disconnected I never reconnect it back, just no need to do it. Inflator is a convenience, not a necessity... I do not even have the hose on my single tank reg setup, as I almost never use it, except inflating on the surface.

I inflate the dry suit from a separate 6ft tank with a Salvo first stage.

 

[Krafcheck]

i have integrated and i like it. in fact i only have two hoses. primary and inflator/integrated. hoseless computer. my reg doesnt look like an octopus with all the hoses hanging off of it.

I have a couple of scubapro (i think) regs from the early 70's they have only one high pressure and one low pressure port off the first stage. primary and spg is all that they were made for.

Dive what you like