Integrated Octo or not?

[Scott L]

having to deal with an "octo" and it's placement has always been a problem.

Alas, some smart people came up with a solution. Hang the second as a necklace, use a long hose for the primary and the problem goes away! Imagine that, a well thought out placement of one's regulators. Who would have imagined that!

It's simple, elegant and works. It flat out works yet people resist it continually.

You would figure folks would listen to the best divers in the world (GUE, DIR). Oh well!

 

[Lead_carrier]

tpsde, the long and short of it is, do YOU like the intergrated octo. I've used one for years and it works fine for me. I have air shared a few times using it and it does the job. It gets me and my buddy back to the surface. With a flexible hose on your bc, you will be able to turn your head as far as you need. What it won't do for you is make you part of the cool crowd. There are a few divers that like to look down their noses at anything different than their on.

If you plan on going DIR or taking cave classes, then you will probably have to replace it or at the very least add a regular octo to your setup. Get what you like and go with it.

 

[scarefaceDM]

Combo Oct. Um No.

No because its not for me. No because I do not want to have two failure points. No I would not suggest this to anyone.
Let me explain please.

Failure point. Faulty oring on said inflator hose. Sticking inflator...makes my wing inflate or not able to inflate via inflation hose . I have to disconnect the hose so as to not have a freeflow. I now have a useless Octo - I have to manually inflate it to control my buoyancy.

What do I breath off if I have to donate my primary?
Yes I can share primary with a panicked diver...Um no. Have you seen the movie SACTUM?

You see a very valid point/argument here.

Oh and the argument or point of where to put an octo and making it streamlined....Well listen to this...its not rocket science it is just logical....It was nicely mention in a reply.

Get some bungee cord, make a necklace with it...slip octo mouth piece in the loop necklace and get a short octo hose. This way, your octo is neatly placed under your chin and not behind you or on a retainer clip or placed in a pocket or worse in the silt you are string up as you fin along the sandy bottom.
You can get at it very quickly with out skipping a beat. Some can even reach it by bending their neck and grabbing it with their mouth....It is the simplest and I frankly think is the best system to house your octo.

It does not get in the way. It does not dangle and scrape the floor with it. It will not get caught in anything...Would you want to take a breathe from an octo full of crap in it?...Think about it.

 

[donhealy]

I've been diving my SSI for several years. You folks have some very interesting and accurate comments. I've also found myself breathing off the reg while buddy breathing and trying to ascend.

Dumping air while buddy breathing and carrying a camera system had to be a lot of fun to see but it was not a fun experience. Regardless, I still use my SSI and prefer that over another hose to deal with. The way I look at it is that its to each their own and what they feel comfortable with.

 

[Peter_C]

My gal who is in the middle of her certification after a few days of classes says "I really like my bungee backup, as I always know where it is!" She did plenty of air shares with other divers using octo's mounted in the triangle and even as a new diver appreciates her 5 foot hose and her bungee backup. She dives HOG regs with the nice tunable second stages for both regs.

Now if you want to learn from higher level training agencies look to UTD and GUE for gear configuration. UTD Essentials would do an excellent job of teaching you to use all your new gear, and enlighten most any diver about team diving.

Ps I vote NO on the octo/inflator, 90 swivel, and vote YES on the BP/W, long hose, bungee backup.

Regardless, I still use my SSI and prefer that over another hose to deal with.

Can you tell us just how the "other hose" is something you have to deal with in such a bad manor? For me it is attached to my regs, and doesn't bother me in slightest bit. Do tell...

 

[blatter]

This topic is a favorite discussion generator but as I haven't been involved in one for a while here goes.

In contrast to most of the other posters on this thread, I really like integrated octo/inflators and have 2 old apeks octo + and 1 zeagle octo z. For no deco single tank diving they are great. They reduce clutter (one less hose to route and one less second stage to stow/carry), they reduce weight when traveling, and because you are always using the BC inflator you always know exactly where your alternate air source is and have easy access to it. Perceived difficulties using one to deflate the BC while ascending and dumping can easily be overcome by practice. Can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

Downside is that you need to make sure you can use them correctly (so that you can dump air and breath at the same time - it seems that walking and chewing gum simultaneously are not for everyone) they are possibly a bit more complex to maintain than a normal inflator, and when using them your head movement is a bit restricted. But then the question becomes how often do you actually need to use them?

If you are guiding clients as a divemaster or teaching students, ie people who you don't know and/or can't trust to look after their own air supply, then a normal second stage on a longer hose is worth carrying instead (or as well) as you will be more likely to need the longer hose and a normal reg makes things a little easier if you have to look after a few people at the same time. For no deco single tank diving solo or with regular buddies you trust not to run out of air then an integrated inflator is fine as IMHO the best thing you can do to avoid problems when sharing air is to make sure you don't run out of air yourself or and dive with people who follow a similar strategy. If the unexpected occurs (I have had to share gas with divers I wasn't even diving with on occasion - they just swam up to me out of the blue) then you have the integrated inflator and hopefully know how to use it.

I do a lot of technical diving with doubles and rebreather (DIR/GUE, the "best divers in the world" are still playing catch up with rebreathers, the real tool for most serious diving at the moment) and still have integrated inflators on my wings. This is partly to avoid swapping out inflator hoses when swapping regs between setups, but also because it gives another option for getting gas.

But ultimately, it comes down to personal choice. If you are happy with a particular gear set up for the type of diving you are doing then that is great. What is an important consideration for one diver may be irrelevant to another. What works, works.

Just some thoughts.

 

[chile7236]

You would figure folks would listen to the best divers in the world (GUE, DIR). Oh well!

this makes me chuckle...nothing against GUE/DIR/etc. just because you're a GUE/DIR diver doesn't automatically make you the the best diver....experience is the best teacher and those with the most experience in a variety of situations/environments (real, not classroom/instructional) are the best divers, regardless of training type/cert agency/"ominus dominus by internet"/etc.

 

[Thalassamania]

Surrendering the primary is the first step, that is critical, what you do after is a matter of your own judgment and choice. There is no doubt in my mind but that an integrated auxiliary takes more skill to handle in an emergency ascent situation. There is no doubt in my mind but that a necklaced auxiliary introduces problems during any evolution during which the diver must remove and/or replace their rig. Both concepts have advantages and both have drawbacks and I see no problem with either as long as you are able to display skillful use of the one that you choose.

 

[halocline]

It never fails to amuse me that someone thinks having one less hose is actually more convenient than a longer-than-necessary inflator hose and a much bulkier-than-necessary inflator mechanism. This is especially true considering that you need to use your alternate only occasionally, but are dealing with the inflator multiple times on every dive.

The octo-inflator is one of those many inventions of the dive gear industry that looks and sounds good in the dive shop where buying decisions are made, but actually does not provide a solution to an existing problem encountered while diving.

 

[BDSC]

This is especially true considering that you need to use your alternate only occasionally, but are dealing with the inflator multiple times on every dive.

Many divers I know hardly ever use the inflator at all once the dive begins. If you are properly waited you really shouldn't have to add much if any air. I know I only use the inflator to add some air if I am waiting at the surface. Other than that I never use it.

The octo-inflator is one of those many inventions of the dive gear industry that looks and sounds good in the dive shop where buying decisions are made, but actually does not provide a solution to an existing problem encountered while diving.

So does a traditional octo provide a solution to an existing problem that an air intergrated octo does not? They are both just redundant sources to breathe from. I didn't know that the AIR II or whatever was designed to provide a solution to a problem. What was that problem?