DIR- Generic Going down the GUE path vs TDI

[ccrprospect]

Real exploration has everyone on the same gear.

Ergo, CCR.

 

[PfcAJ]

Ergo, CCR.

Or SCR. Or OC.

 

[ccrprospect]

Or SCR. Or OC.

You know more about GUE than I do - but seems most exploration trip photos show them in CCR.

 

[helodriver87]

You know more about GUE than I do - but seems most exploration trip photos show them in CCR.

The big ones like Mars are CCR. There are lots of smaller projects. I'm working on one that's OC sidemount. Whatever is right for the job.

 

[ginti]

The big ones like Mars are CCR. There are lots of smaller projects. I'm working on one that's OC sidemount. Whatever is right for the job.

I'd say: most of the big ones in ocean water are CCR.

As you said, the right tool for the job - in caves, even big projects may require side-mount (closed or open circuit) and even no-mount... and they also require a "bit" more experience than I have

Unfortunately, no standardization available yet here

 

[helodriver87]

I'd say: most of the big ones in ocean water are CCR.

As you said, the right tool for the job - in caves, even big projects may require side-mount (closed or open circuit) and even no-mount... and they also require a "bit" more experience than I have

Unfortunately, no standardization available yet here

@PfcAJ dives his RB80 in open water, but the CCR really is definitively better for that despite what he says It's a more complex discussion for caves. Ultimately, I see no reason not to know how to use all of the tools at your disposal. Not getting to go somewhere because your gear is wrong for the job is dumb.

 

[PfcAJ]

@PfcAJ dives his RB80 in open water, but the CCR really is definitively better for that despite what he says It's a more complex discussion for caves. Ultimately, I see no reason not to know how to use all of the tools at your disposal. Not getting to go somewhere because your gear is wrong for the job is dumb.

Possibly marginally better.

RB80 does just fine in ow though. I’ve had that thing on some wacky dives and kept up just fine with oc and ccr folks.

 

[ls23]

It's like half RB80 and half JJ on the deep open water projects like Egadi. I remember one of the project divers saying somewhere that it doesn't really matter which one it is, the diver just needs to know his unit and have the experience.

Coolest diving video out there btw.

 

[CptTightPants21]

I am a TDI certified normoxic trimix diver. I also completed my fundies with a tec pass. I am conflicted on whether to take tec 1 (and subsequently tec 2), or alternatively do the advanced (hypoxic) trimix TDI course. The second option gets me to the magical 100 meters right away and opens up a whole new world of diving. I am interested in continuing down the GUE CCR path at some point so tec 1 is likely in my future anyways. Question is - should I do the tec 1/ tec 2 stream or since I plan on switching to ccr anyways, get my advanced tmx certification now, and then continue down the tec 1/ ccr 1 path?

On a side, what’s with the 75 m limit for tec 2? I understand you can subsequently get an endorsement to 90 meters, but seems to be slightly overkill in terms of conservatism..

p.s. I hope this doesn’t turn to agency bashing. I am fortunate to have access to some of the best instructors in both tdi and gue.

cheers

You face the the same dilemma that a lot of divers face--when do I go CCR, do I climb the top of the OC pyramid first, etc? On top of that you have been exposed to GUE and recognize the quality of the training and the course progression--which adds another layer. PfcAJ has always been a very big supporter of being a master OC diver before going to CCR. While it is a strongly agree with the sentiment, I also think the Tech 1, Tech 2, then CCR 1 is a bit overkill. Tech 2 classes are not cheap, Tech 2 dives are not cheap..how much time, money, and experience are you really going to do at Tech 2 level before you restart with CCR 1 and CCR 2?

My recommendation is this:
Take Tech 1 first. You have a fundies tech pass, but in many ways that is just an introductory certification. Tech 1 confirms your diver skill level, teaches you the GUE failure and gas switch protocols, and opens up all the doors to allow you to choose your next steps. You have the fundies, but without the Tech 1 (or Cave 1) you actually don't know a whole array of procedures that would allow you to seamlessly dive with other GUE divers.

After Tech 1:
I am not sure how much diving you do or what your timeline is in terms of paying and doing class, but after Tech 1 you can decide if you want to the the hypoxic OC training or continue on to CCR 1. If there are some dives that you absolutely want to get done and need hypoxic trimix, then maybe that is a route to take. If you do CCR 1 then its more likely you will do CCR 2 to get your hypoxic gases and just bypass OC advanced trimix training.

Lots of divers (not just GUE) are getting normoxic trimix and then going to CCR and getting all their advanced trimix on CCR--it just makes too much sense economically and practically. It was one of the big reasons that GUE created the CCR 1 and CCR 2 programs and removed Tech 2 as a requirement--too many divers were going Fundies, Tech 1,and then CCR someplace else. GUE's CCR 1/2 is unique in that is mirrors the Tech 1 and Tech 2 OC certs and they give you trimix right out of the gate--most agencies require you to take an additional class to do deco/helium.

 

[rjack321]

I am a TDI certified normoxic trimix diver. I also completed my fundies with a tec pass. I am conflicted on whether to take tec 1 (and subsequently tec 2), or alternatively do the advanced (hypoxic) trimix TDI course. The second option gets me to the magical 100 meters right away and opens up a whole new world of diving. I am interested in continuing down the GUE CCR path at some point so tec 1 is likely in my future anyways. Question is - should I do the tec 1/ tec 2 stream or since I plan on switching to ccr anyways, get my advanced tmx certification now, and then continue down the tec 1/ ccr 1 path?

On a side, what’s with the 75 m limit for tec 2? I understand you can subsequently get an endorsement to 90 meters, but seems to be slightly overkill in terms of conservatism..

p.s. I hope this doesn’t turn to agency bashing. I am fortunate to have access to some of the best instructors in both tdi and gue.

cheers

Where are you in the world and what dive are you aspiring to that you can't do on your current normoxic ticket and with current (TDI?) buddies

With GUE, you know what you’re going to get. The standards are set and well known and the instructors are highly vetted.

I would love to be able to confirm this, but...
there is at least one who's in way over their head, doesn't actually do the dives, "teaches" by rote.

Real exploration has everyone on the same gear.

I wish, but alas the number of people with the experience, training, vacation time, family support, money, gear, willingness, and motivation can be severely limited in some parts of the world.

For caves near me, the JJ with the backmounted 50s does not work at all (RB80 would be even worse choice). You can do the tourist bits on OC, but the exploration/projects require specialized gear. While I have a Kiss, I wouldn't turn someone away just because they were diving a SM liberty or SF2.

My recommendation is this:
Take Tech 1 first. You have a fundies tech pass, but in many ways that is just an introductory certification. Tech 1 confirms your diver skill level, teaches you the GUE failure and gas switch protocols, and opens up all the doors to allow you to choose your next steps. You have the fundies, but without the Tech 1 (or Cave 1) you actually don't know a whole array of procedures that would allow you to seamlessly dive with other GUE divers.

1000% agree with this. I wouldn't hand wring over this path at all. The OP may very well (and prudently) decide to spend the next 3 years doing T1 dives and develop a solid OC tech base of 150 normoxic dives before thinking about what next.​