General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Kevin Carlisle]

Some people write their dinner plans in detail on FaceBook. I have a nephew who lets the world know when he is having a cup of coffee.

From everything we have heard so far, his FaceBook posting is not at all surprising. He appears to have been really proud of what he was doing, and his descriptions of his exploits probably resulted in tons of admiration from his friends, who didn't know any better. I am sure he was expecting further admiration from those posts.

Keep in mind that you would be assuming his log was accurate and not inflated a lot.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've read a lot of criticism regarding that video but unless I'm not understanding, he was not associated with those two guys goofing around, correct? He was the one in the helmet who happened to come along as the other guys were shooting the video. That being said, what is the assessment of his skills in this video? He looks fairly competent to me, but then I've never done SM (only recently OW certified,) so I'm not sure what to look for and might be totally off base.

Side-mount or otherwise, the buoyancy control exhibited in the video wouldn't have gotten him through a cave class.

I'm a little curious about something else. I think I remember reading on one of these threads that Ben was posting/logging either on Facebook or in a dive log what his dive plan was in advance or what he was going to do. Am I right on this?

The reason I bring it up is, (if he did this) I didn't know if that was typical for him to do or was it just this particular dive. I'm not familiar with cave diving so I don't know if people write out their dive plan in advance just in case. I guess I'm use to people logging a dive and the events surrounding a dive after the fact.

Cave diving ... any kind of overhead diving, really ... requires you to plan your dive carefully in advance. The reason is primarily that you have to look at your gas supply not just from the perspective of whether you have enough for the dive, but from the perspective of whether you have enough to get you out of the overhead if something goes wrong.

Once you remove the option of going to the surface, your whole mental approach to the dive has to change. That's what gets so many OW divers in trouble when they enter an overhead ... even if they have the "correct" physical skills and equipment to do the dive.

Based on the last posting, I want to dabble a little farther into psychology with another one of my really far flung analogies.

One of the biographies of Jim Morrison of the Doors tells the story of a time he joined a bunch of others at a dinner party. As they sat down to eat, the host proudly set a bottle of Courvoisier, his favorite Cognac, in front of him, clearly indicating it was for him to drink with the meal. Before the evening had come to a close, Morrison had passed out and wet his pants.

After coming to, in a moment of anger and rare lucidity, he lashed out at the host for giving him the bottle. He said that putting the bottle there meant, "You're the drinking man!" It implied that he had a reputation to uphold, a reputation that was held in high esteem by his many admirers. He felt he had to live up to that reputation and drink the whole bottle, something he would not have otherwise done.

I wonder if some people don't put themselves into that situation by building an image of being on the edge, an image that brings them esteem and admiration. They then have to keep pushing and pushing in order to maintain that image of being on the edge, of being a person worthy of that esteem. Once you have told the world that you are a daring cave diver who goes far beyond what others do, it is hard to suddenly decide to show restraint and common sense, even if in your heart you know better.

Yup ... the biggest problem with cultivating a reputation is that you then have to live up to it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

Keep in mind that you would be assuming his log was accurate and not inflated a lot.

I make no such assumption. Inflating it could be very consistent with what I was talking about.

 

[spector39]

Side-mount or otherwise, the buoyancy control exhibited in the video wouldn't have gotten him through a cave class.

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[tracydr]

I make no such assumption. Inflating it could be very consistent with what I was talking about.

My ex-husband was bipolar and also a sociopath. He would tell a lie about his abilities and experience so many times that he believed it himself. He also would feel he was immortal during his manic stages, causing him to do crazy, risky things. Like leaving the dive group to try to find the whales in open water, despite being an air hog.
He would literally run OOA on every dive and it never occurred to him that he could die from this.
People with mania, hypomania or sociopaths are dangerous to themselves and others because they don't recognize their inabilities and limitations. He would also brag about what an advanced diver he was.
I just thank god diving with my ex didn't cause a fatality or three!

 

[InTheDrink]

I think this train of conversation doesn't add anything, and actually detracts from a lot of good stuff that was said before. Second guessing people's motivations and introducing comparative words like sociopath - if someone can tell me how useful this is I'll be happy to to shut up. But I'm struggling with this and surprised that someone as sage as bouderjohn would raise this.

Facebook is a very common means of communication these days. Posting your plans on it doesn't mean you are an ego, socio or any other kind of manic. So reading into it might not really have any relevance or value. It could however come across as distasteful and, well, silly.

J

 

[Divedoggie]

... and sometimes it is just really simple.

NH teen who zapped nipples during shop class sues - Teenagers - Salon.com

"The New Hampshire Union Leader says Dubois' suit contends he suffered permanent brain damage." <= Surely the permanent brain damage had already occurred at some point before the electrical nipple clamp episode.

Interesting analogy.

 

[TommyB]

Here's what I see on this video after looking at the comments eg,
"he was not part of the group"
he just happened upon these guys filming" etc.

He seems to have the BMOC (Big man on campus) syndrome. Does anyone else find it odd that if he's not part of this group that he seems to be going out of his way trying to be the one in the frames?
So if he's not part of this group why the heck is he swimming in and out of these other 2 boneheads video. Giving the little gang symbol thing-a-mybobie with his hands,
swimming with them , etc.
"Hey Look at me, I'm so cool, film me" .

Great attitude for this so called advanced techinical diver. I can understand ending up in some ones video, but to continualy swim in and out, do somersaults, bounce around on the ceiling and then to proceed to swimming along with them.
BMOC -- I'm cool, film me.

 

[Cave Diver]

Here's what I see on this video after looking at the comments eg,
"he was not part of the group"
he just happened upon these guys filming" etc.

He seems to have the BMOC (Big man on campus) syndrome. Does anyone else find it odd that if he's not part of this group that he seems to be going out of his way trying to be the one in the frames?
So if he's not part of this group why the heck is he swimming in and out of these other 2 boneheads video. Giving the little gang symbol thing-a-mybobie with his hands,
swimming with them , etc.
"Hey Look at me, I'm so cool, film me" .

Great attitude for this so called advanced techinical diver. I can understand ending up in some ones video, but to continualy swim in and out, do somersaults, bounce around on the ceiling and then to proceed to swimming along with them.
BMOC -- I'm cool, film me.

Agreed. Anytime I run across another team in a cave I go out of my way to be unobtrusive to them. Shield my light, move to the other side of the passage, etc. Of course that's assuming the team appears to belong there.

In the case of the other people in the video I would probably make an exception to that and point to the exit and signal them they needed to head in that direction. Especially if I happened to catch the bonehead walking on the ceiling.

 

[Cave Diver]

Has anyone been able to detect the presence of a primary light in that video? If he was just completing a cave dive when he ran across the guys doing the video I would expect him to have carried one, but I don't see one at any point in the video, either on or stowed.