General Vortex Incident Discussion

[TommyB]

Has anyone been able to detect the presence of a primary light in that video? If he was just completing a cave dive when he ran across the guys doing the video I would expect him to have carried one, but I don't see one at any point in the video, either on or stowed.

I looked, did not see one. I even made the video lighter by 20 / 30 and 40% to try and view it better. I did not see any type of canister light, but that's not to say he did not have it stowed in his pockets... Oh wait, but you ain't got no pockets Lt. Dan.

I'll give him the benefit and say it was hidden on his person some where and not duct-taped to his helmet

 

[boulderjohn]

I think this train of conversation doesn't add anything, and actually detracts from a lot of good stuff that was said before. Second guessing people's motivations and introducing comparative words like sociopath - if someone can tell me how useful this is I'll be happy to to shut up. But I'm struggling with this and surprised that someone as sage as bouderjohn would raise this.

There was a compliment in there, and I will give thanks for it before responding. You could be right. My intent was more generic and philosophical than an opinion on this particular person in this particular incident. I am intensely interested in why people do things like this in general.

I remember reading several years ago about an instructor who was also a cave diver and who had taught certified two OW divers. In class he had fully emphasized the dangers of cave diving. The next week he finished a cave dive and saw his former students preparing to dive in the open water area. Suspicious, he repeated his warning. Of course, they told him they understood. Of course, they went into the cave as soon as he was not around to watch and died.

I am baffled as to why people do that.

Perhaps you are right in that this is not the place for it. Perhaps a more generic "Why do people do this?" thread would be more appropriate.

 

[Hetland]

Has anyone been able to detect the presence of a primary light in that video? If he was just completing a cave dive when he ran across the guys doing the video I would expect him to have carried one, but I don't see one at any point in the video, either on or stowed.

I would be amazed to find that he had a real primary. If he was balking at the cost of a cavern course, I can't see him spending a grand on a light. I get the sense that the area in question is not huge or wide-open. I would expect a primary would do a good job of lighting up that area, but I don't see enough light at any point in that video to suggest a real primary was in use.

 

[Fox-Cousteau]

I remember reading several years ago about an instructor who was also a cave diver and who had taught certified two OW divers. In class he had fully emphasized the dangers of cave diving. The next week he finished a cave dive and saw his former students preparing to dive in the open water area. Suspicious, he repeated his warning. Of course, they told him they understood. Of course, they went into the cave as soon as he was not around to watch and died.

I think there is an episode of "Emergency 911" that dramatized that event or one very similar to it.

 

[Jax]

I think there is an episode of "Emergency 911" that dramatized that event or one very similar to it.

There is - check out Diveaholic's webpage, in his sig line. He's posted the episode on his site.

 

[InTheDrink]

There was a compliment in there, and I will give thanks for it before responding. You could be right. My intent was more generic and philosophical than an opinion on this particular person in this particular incident. I am intensely interested in why people do things like this in general.

I remember reading several years ago about an instructor who was also a cave diver and who had taught certified two OW divers. In class he had fully emphasized the dangers of cave diving. The next week he finished a cave dive and saw his former students preparing to dive in the open water area. Suspicious, he repeated his warning. Of course, they told him they understood. Of course, they went into the cave as soon as he was not around to watch and died.

I am baffled as to why people do that.

Perhaps you are right in that this is not the place for it. Perhaps a more generic "Why do people do this?" thread would be more appropriate.

Yeah there was a compliment in there. And I'm aware that this isn't the AI forum so the point of dialogue here isn't necessarily learning lessons. Nor am I a cave diver so perhaps the mix is completely wrong.

But for some reason I find second guessing people's motivations distasteful. These guesses seem generally to be wrong and I struggle to see what can be learned, especially if guessing the motivation is incorrect.

When I know someone personally I am pretty happy to guess what their motivations are, and impressing people is often a common one, so I certainly wouldn't rule this out here. But I would be slow to slight someone in this regard with this without knowing them first and even when I know them I'm often wrong, and I read people pretty well.

Anyhow, no matter. Just looking to enquire what's to be gained by opening that particular line of enquiry/speculation.

J

p.s. I also think there is some symmetry to your questions.

Why do young people do foolish things? Because they are young, foolish.

What do old people question the motivations of people sharing their life's contents on facebook? Cos they're old coots

Twas ever so

 

[boulderjohn]

I think there is an episode of "Emergency 911" that dramatized that event or one very similar to it.

Actually, I just reviewed that video earlier today and thought about including it. It is not the same thing I was thinking about, but it is indeed similar.

 

[mike_s]

I think there is an episode of "Emergency 911" that dramatized that event or one very similar to it.

I remember that episode. I've got it on VHS somewhere.

3 (or 4) OW divers that had recently finished their OW class decided to go enter the cave (at Ginnie or somewhere, can't remember exactly).

They were all single tanks, and only had about one 'half ass' light between them.


One of them made it out by himself... and sounded the alarm. Luckily there was a trained cave diver gearing up. He went in searching for them.

two of them made it up into a crack air pocket. Their gas/air supply exhausted. He brought them out one at a time. They were damn lucky.

the last guy they brought out dead.

 

[Jax]

I remember that episode. I've got it on VHS somewhere.

3 (or 4) OW divers that had recently finished their OW class decided to go enter the cave (at Ginnie or somewhere, can't remember exactly).

They were all single tanks, and only had about one 'half ass' light between them.


One of them made it out by himself... and sounded the alarm. Luckily there was a trained cave diver gearing up. He went in searching for them.

two of them made it up into a crack air pocket. Their gas/air supply exhausted. He brought them out one at a time. They were damn lucky.

the last guy they brought out dead.

Yes, that's the one Diveaholic has on his website.

 

[The Chairman]

But for some reason I find second guessing people's motivations distasteful.

Perhaps I can put things in perspective four you...

• This is a restricted forum. Only those who have demonstrated the right to be here are allowed. Family and friends will never see this line of discussion unless they qualify. By then, their skin will have thickened considerably and they would be able to handle the non-varnished opinions of these divers.
• The point of this forum is to discuss ALL of the angles that pertain to Cave Diving. There are no sacred cows, or off limit discussions here. The discussions can be frank even to the point of being blunt, so that we can get down to the real issues.