General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Kevin Carlisle]

The sand slides at variable amounts, and I would say the flow holds it back. Sand could slide there without anyone knowing. If the whole damned thing washed out, that'd be one thing, but a smaller slide(still a considerable amount of sand) could be almost unrecognizable. Thats actually not incredibly uncommon in different caves, definately something I've learned to recognize as a potential hazard. There's actually another sand hill further into the system that I could see sliding as well, its beyond the pvc pipe and pretty much the extent of where I'm willing to go in vortex due to depth(150' at that point) and where the passage gets very restrictive. Neither one of these sand hills are what I'd consider the back of the cave(the back half, sure)... and I don't know whats beyond aside from what I hear, grindingly low passage, silt/mud/clay, narrow, etc.

I don't dispute the part on a smaller slide not being noticeable. Especially if it was mostly sand. I can't see the flow holding it up tho. I spent 6 years running various tests on sand for an engineering company and I just can't see it. The slightest drop in flow rat would change the weight ratio too much. If there was enough clay in it you could easily be right, either way I don't think I care to see that area of the cave again. Not exactly pretty IMO.

 

[Cave Diver]

Maybe attach a camera to an eel?

Maybe we could attach a laser to one and make them guardians of the cave?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Maybe we could attach a laser to one and make them guardians of the cave?

Eels? Might be tough but sharks is doable.

Spoiler

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I don't dispute the part on a smaller slide not being noticeable. Especially if it was mostly sand. I can't see the flow holding it up tho. I spent 6 years running various tests on sand for an engineering company and I just can't see it. The slightest drop in flow rat would change the weight ratio too much. If there was enough clay in it you could easily be right, either way I don't think I care to see that area of the cave again. Not exactly pretty IMO.

Before Eduardo started dredging, it was a commonality to create a sandslide at that 'restriction'. The diver would block the flow just enough when passing and the sand would slide down, making the restriction even tighter. People had to dig there way out.

Vortex isn't alone in that... There are lots of caves with sand slides. Those sand dunes are just ejecta being thrown out by the flow, eventually, they build up to the point where they overcome the flow and slide down. A difference in flow rate will drop the sand as well. They are a regular occurance, certainly not always on the same scale.

 

[vladimir]

.....

 

[Tortuga68]

As the narrator said in Braveheart "History is written by the victor"

Winston Churchill

 

[shoredivr]

Winston Churchill

I was just thinking that Dale C's post illustrates that Hollywood is the victor in this case

 

[Hetland]

Thanks for the sand info guys. I've yet to hear a good reason to go into the cave at Vortex. I've seen a pretty photo or two, but not worth it to see myself, even if I had the training, and even if the dive was free.

If it's not too much to ask, what kind of depths was Ben logging for his earlier Vortex excursions? I know he could have written down anything he wanted, it's not like we have data from his computer, I'm just thinking the depth info might be a clue as to how far back he had gotten in his previous attempts.

 

[DaleC]

I was just thinking that Dale C's post illustrates that Hollywood is the victor in this case

Exactly (who's winston churchill?).

 

[Rick Murchison]

... I'm guessing I'll learn more from you!

I sorta doubt that Rob. Doing it since a long time ago and doing it a lot are two entirely different matters
Rick