General Vortex Incident Discussion

[sabbath999]

Thanks, shoredivr. I'm thinking some people are not seeing the great interest in sidemount that is ballooning as people choose other than humping a 100+ pounds around on their back.

If I am going to be humping something 100+ pounds...

Oh wait, this is a family friendly forum, I better stop right here.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Ah, but that's exactly the point. People use the experience they have to decide how much experience they need and if it's silly or not to take a class.

Let's take cave diving for example. One of the most talked about rules is the rule of 1/3's and having redundant gas supply. Very seldom do you see discussions centered around use of markers, line skills, etc. So you take a diver who completed a sidemount course and now they have gained some experience with independent redundancy. So now they think they know enough about managing their gas supply to dive in a cave and decide that it's useless to take a silly cave class.

Nah, one is a specific type of diving for a specialized environment(cave diving), one is a course to help shorten the learning curve for a specific configuration(sidemount diving), and alot of the other courses are just to teach you an additional piece of gear and gas planning refinements(DPVs/stages/lesser point with drysuits/etc).

This guy knew he should have gotten cave trained, he was arrogant, and nothing was going to prevent him breaking the rules.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Ah, but that's exactly the point. People use the experience they have to decide how much experience they need and if it's silly or not to take a class.

Let's take cave diving for example. One of the most talked about rules is the rule of 1/3's and having redundant gas supply. Very seldom do you see discussions centered around use of markers, line skills, etc. So you take a diver who completed a sidemount course and now they have gained some experience with independent redundancy. So now they think they know enough about managing their gas supply to dive in a cave and decide that it's useless to take a silly cave class.

Then again, there's the other side of the coin... I started side mount diving before any side mount diving courses existed. I'm contemplating taking a side mount course to see what I may have missed along the way
Rick

 

[mike_s]

so.... assuming the body is still in Vortex, how long does it take before Adipocere occurs completely? (over the entire body).


I ask as this was the case with the body of Deon Dreyer. (note though however that his body stayed submerged for 11 years before it was recovered and at a MUCH greater depth).

 

[PfcAJ]

IMHO this is part of the problem.

Some (many?) classes are silly/not required. (stagediver,drysuit,sidemount,whatever)

Others are absolutely essential (Cave)

How is a diver to know the difference?

If you have to ask, you need the class.

 

[mrmccoy]

So you take a diver who completed a sidemount course and now they have gained some experience with independent redundancy. So now they think they know enough about managing their gas supply to dive in a cave and decide that it's useless to take a silly cave class.

I will use myself as an example: I have completed an ow sidemount course in preperation for cavern and basic cave. I have not been into any type of overhead nor do I plan to untill I have the proper training. I did this after talking with my instructor about what my plans were after cavern.

I'm sure this guy was diving in the cave before he ever touched sm gear. You can't cure stupid!

 

[diverdoug1]

so.... assuming the body is still in Vortex, how long does it take before Adipocere occurs completely? (over the entire body).


I ask as this was the case with the body of Deon Dreyer. (note though however that his body stayed submerged for 11 years before it was recovered and at a MUCH greater depth).

Under ideal conditions, saponification starts to become evidant about 30 days post mortem. There are multiple determinants for the rate of saponification (water temperature, water pH, clothing, body habitus, presence of scavengers denuding tissues, ...). It would be impossible to say if or how fast sponification will occur. Once adipocere forms, it can last for hundreds of years. When corpses have wetsuits on, the parts of the body covered by the wetsuit are more likely to saponify, whereas uncovered areas are more likely to skeletonize.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I will use myself as an example: I have completed an ow sidemount course in preperation for cavern and basic cave. I have not been into any type of overhead nor do I plan to untill I have the proper training. I did this after talking with my instructor about what my plans were after cavern.

I'm sure this guy was diving in the cave before he ever touched sm gear. You can't cure stupid!

Well said. Not sure why its hard for others to comprehend that if they want to do it lack of training is not gonna stop them.

 

[diverdoug1]

Well said. Not sure why its hard for others to comprehend that if they want to do it lack of training is not gonna stop them.

True for divers as well as for teenagers on lover's lane!

 

[Cave Diver]

Not sure why its hard for others to comprehend that if they want to do it lack of training is not gonna stop them.

Not sure, but that debate is going in another thread right now as well.