Future-proof gear for newcomer

[chrpai]

Why spend $350 on a rec computer that doesn't have what you will need to go on to tech, then purchase a new,tech computer in short while?

My Hollis DG03 was $250. My used Oceanic Bottom Timer was $100. That's a $150 premium for a full featured computer for recreational diving that can be set to gauge mode for if/when you become a tech diver. You can use it with tables or use it as a backup to a more expensive computer if you like. I think it's a pretty good deal and a minor expense. But if someone wanted to do all the recreational dives using tables and a bottom timer, then go ahead and save $150 and get a used BT.

 

[alecto]

the scubapro reg you are thinking about is a great reg. But realize that you don't qualify for free parts for life unless you buy the rest of your kit as scubapro. I believe that includes bcd and computer. I think that is a fairly recent policy change but you should double check that. I'm sure others here know more about the change. You still may want the mk17/a700 but know that you will have to pay for the parts down the line if you go with dss or the petrel.

 

[Kizzmansky]

Hmmm. I'm not planning on getting anything but the regulator from scubapro. Too bad. Still seems like a great piece of diving technology.

 

[chrpai]

Hmmm. I'm not planning on getting anything but the regulator from scubapro. Too bad. Still seems like a great piece of diving technology.

Technology that is decades old. Many companies make regulators that are very similar. In fact, ScubaPro makes an Mk19 that they don't even sell in the US. There's another company that makes a regulator that's very similar to that but for a fraction of the cost. That would be a very sweet reg to buy.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Why wouldn't you sell/promote the Best?

If you can explain how the Galileo's tech has been able to qualify as the "Best" since the 90s, that'd be great. The thing is an overpriced, poorly designed piece of outdated tech. SP regs are great, except for the fact that they're supported (and I use that term loosely) by SP, but let's not go overstating the brand's breadth of quality.

 

[victorzamora]

Kizzmansky, chrpai and I don't often agree on a lot....but I'm going to echo nearly everything he's said.

-BCD: I'm an Aerospace Engineer. I like bells and whistles, I like all of the toys. If you get a BPW (good suggestion), do not put weight pouches or pockets or any other crap on there. No padding is needed, even bare torso. I've got a weight belt I wear all of my weights on. It's a freediver style weightbelt, rubber so it won't slip, stretchy so it compensates for depth, and tongue-style buckle like a normal belt so no slipping. If you're looking at going sidemount VERY soon, something like the Hollis SMS100 might be a good first rig to look at. I have a (and adore my) Hollis SMS100, but I'm (slowly) building a BPW just to have.

-Regs: I had Hollis regs and loved them. I still think they're some of the greatest regs I've ever come into contact with. However, part of Tech diving is servicing gear if it goes bad....so I've transitioned to Hog. My Hogs do as well as my Hollis regs did, and at a significant price difference. I've got the new D3/Zenith regs. The reason I sold my Hollis regs and bought Hog regs is so I could keep a single type of parts kits for all of my regs. I was about to buy deco and stage regs, and it would be so much cheaper to go with all Hog rather than all Hollis, and parts kits are available. I like keeping stuff to a single brand within the type, but I'll mix brands (all regs same brand, but not same as mask/fins/bcd/clips/etc)

-Computer: I have a Hollis DG03. $250 computer. Nitrox, 3-gases, mid-dive switch, up to 100% O2 AND it has a gauge mode. The only features lacking are He and CCR. Both of those are well out of my reach for now. Even when (if) I start diving Trimix, I'll be running my DG03 in gauge mode with cut tables as a backup to my Petrel (or whatever is the latest/greatest then). Computer technology is sprinting forwards by leaps and bounds. Would you buy a $1000 gaming computer if you weren't going to play video games for another couple years? No, you'd wait and get it then.

-Regs, cont: Go ahead and get a longhose setup with a bungeed octo. It'll make a lot more sense for the future. I'd also be tempted to tell you to get a couple of omniswivels, just because it reduces jaw fatigue and improves hose routing.

-Get a drysuit. Even in warm water, long dives get cold. Also, the comfort factor of a drysuit is immense. Get a p-valve with a quick disconnect, stay hydrated, and never leave your suit. When you get out, you're dry and comfortable no matter the water temps. I'll have a hard time ever diving wet again, even in pretty tropical conditions (I dove dry in the Keys).

-Lights: Definitely skip the gun-style plastic lights. China offers a bunch of decent lights for a good price through eBay powered by 18650 cells or the like. Intovas are great, and will make great backup/mask lights. I have a couple of little Hollis lights (LED 3) and love them. They're my backups. As far as a can light: I like the recommendation of the $250 light from the classifieds here on Scubaboard. It seems to be a great product at a great price. You'll find yourself diving with it on even if you don't need it, just because the signalling is drastically improved and it brings color back to underwater scenery. However, don't spend the money on a NICE can light until you need it. That technology is always changing, and if they release a new LED emitter or technology or batter technology or whatever, that's a lot of money tied up in a light you don't need.

-Budget: This has sparked a HUGE debate in a few other threads. If you're thrifty, cautious, and don't dive a whole lot, buying gear can be kept to a minimum. However, Tech diving is NOT CHEAP AT ALL. Having said that, I was able to start tech diving, buy most of my gear, do a lot of my training, and do a lot of diving as a college student with no job and a fiancee. If you're smart, you wait, and you buy necessities, you can spread the cost out and it stings a WHOLE lot less. Tech diving has a minimum price, but it can be as expensive as you let it be.

As far as DSS and nicer/cheaper BPW options: I wholeheartedly agree that simpler is better. However, that doesn't mean there's no point in buying nicer stuff. Tobin is a huge resource and will spend time making sure you get a setup optimized for you. He offers long and short plates and very high quality wings. The quality of the plate's finish, the quality of the hardware (stainless vs "stainless" steel, thickness), and wing finish all reward someone who buys the nicer gear. Hog, Oxycheq, Hollis, Halcyon, etc all make good stuff. Halcyon has the nicest, but I don't believe the difference in quality is worth the H-tax. My Hollis backplate is as nice as I could ever hope for.

If you do get a BPW, the brand might matter more than that. If you don't want to have to use a single tank adapter, some brands must be avoided (Halcyon) and some brands of wing/plate don't work well together.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

P.S. I'm really considering the following items:

Scubapro MK17/A700 reg because free parts for life, reliable, not hugely overpriced, serviced pretty much everywhere
Shearwater Petrel comp because seems it's the best no-bs computer on the market, made to last, great battery system
DSS BP/W because can't justify paying double price for halcyon or anything else

P.S.2 With dc like shearwater petrel should I get a full triple gauge with pressure/depth/compass or just a mini pressure gauge?

You won't get FPFL from SP unless you buy a package, not just a reg. It's a scam, because the real cost is in the labor, not the parts. Look at some Atomic Z2s setup on a long hose/necklaced backup.

Petrel is the best computer on the market at the moment, and if you have $$$ to blow, you won't regret it. However, you do need to learn how its gradient factor algorithm works before you can make sensible choices about how to set it: set wrong, you can either have far less NDL time than you should, or, set yourself up for a chamber ride because you set it for ridicuously aggressive profiles without realizing it. Consider the VPM unlock for $75 if you want greater flexibility in algos...but still learn how GFs work.

DSS makes great stuff. Personally, I prefer the H plates, but DSS is probably just as good. The DSS wings are, IMO, better that what H is churning out now...especially for single tank. If Halcyon started making Pioneer 27s again (or just sold their current Traveler wing separetely), I'd probably take that over the DSS wing. In your position, I'd consider buying a DSS torus wing and a used H plate, but if you can affort to go for a full DSS rig, you won't regret it.

Get a regular old 2.5" brass & mineral glass SPG, put it on a 24" hose, tie a bolt snap on it, and clip it off to your left hip d-ring. Suunto SK7 compass in a DSS boot goes on your arm.

You certainly don't need one of these, but if you want a nice light that will always be useful, the Light Monkey LED can lights are great, at least as good as the Halcyon ones, and are backed by much better support. They're still not on par with the punch of a HID light of comparable wattage, but are a lot more forgiving of being banged around. Ditto on backup lights...you're not going to do better than the simplicty of a LM 3W LED light. That said, if you just want a single handheld light that's good and bright, a DRIS 1000 will do the trick nicely.

 

[eelnoraa]

Another agreement about SP's free part for life program is not worth much. SP does make good regulators, but FPFL is NOT the reason to go with SP.

 

[corvettejoe]

I'm really looking forward to learning more and going deeper and doing some caves and wrecks in the next year or two. So I need some help future-proofing my investment so I can use it for a while without expensive upgrades or replacements.

1) would it be a good idea to get a modular harness like Hollis instead of BCD right away so it can be used for tec and upgraded in years to come?

2) Computer. Is it a good idea to get a top trimix enabled wireless computer right away? I would rather pay a bit more now then drop another few grand in a year or so. Or is trimix is way out of regular person's reach?

3) Regulator. Does it make sense to look for something with nitrox above 40% or better get a comfortable one? Is it really needed to have it above 40? Can regular 40% nitrox regulator be used for introductory tec and trimix?


Thanks!

1 - Depends what you want to do down the ...Backmount Doubles or Sidemount?
I started with a backplate and wing to future proof myself. It took me up to Cavern...then I went sidemount and bought a sidemount BC. Some sidemount BCs allow for single tank backmount too, so consider that if you only want to get ONE... but I enjoy having two. I have the HOG backplate/Wing setup for OW...and a Hollis SMS100D for sidemount/cave stuff.

2 - Tech divers don't use wireless stuff. but if money is no object...get the Shearwater Petrel or a Liquivision X1 (top two computers for technical diving multiple gasses). Even the rebreather guys use them. I have the Petrel and absolutely love it.

3 - All regs can breath all gasses... I think you may just mean o2 cleaned at some point before use...
I've been using all HOG regs since my OW cert. You can get full sets quite cheap and they are VERY high performance. Most of my tech/cave buddies are using them or switching over to them when they replace older regs. I bought them because MY instructor had been using them for years and recommended them as the best bang for the buck, so I continue to pass on the advice. I have several sets of them for various uses...breathing everything from air to 100% o2 with them. I bought them a few months after I was OW certified and still use the same regs years later for cave and deco purposes. Do get DIN regs though. Yoke doesn't belong in tech diving and if you need yoke on some far away dive trip just buy a pair of adapters for them.

Hope that helps...

 

[BCReconDiver]

BP/w is one way to go, or you could do the Hollis SMS 100. It's got plenty of lift, designed for single back, sidemount AND rebreather's. lots of D rings, the all important crotch strap and there not that expensive. Someone mentioned HOG regs, a great way to go just make sure you get DIN valves, you can always get the doughnuts to make them yoke if needed. As far as computer go...well if your from Canada..I would worry more about a good Drysuit lol. Whites fusion is frakin awesome, but it's the only shell suit I would recommend, unless your a commercial diver, otherwise sown the extra cash on a custom fit neaprene suit.
Dive safe