Fins?

[Pullmyfinger]

I agree with your examples of fast moving marine mammals and fish, that all makes sense. But it may boil down to a function of power to weight ratio, we divers are generally not fast moving creatures, canoeist and kayakers aren't really that fast moving either.
Using your point of flight, a humming bird being very light uses an extremely fast rate, a bigger bird like a eagle hawk or seagull for that matter doesn't use a fast rate at all, grabbing more air per flap of it's wings. For me using both the Jet fin and the Atomic split fin, I much preferred the slower and more powerful "feeling" kick rate that the Jets seem to work best at.
My comparison was based on overall feel. The original poster asked specifically about opinions on split fins, so I gave my opinion. I qualified my opinion by comparing the splits to the fin I use and prefer and gave my opinions on each, that way my preferences are known when giving the opinion (because admittedly nobody can be truly objective).

I then followed it all up with my objective (attempt, anyway.) opinion of an alternative type of fin (the mares or Poseidon type), which is probably the best overall choice. Like most people, once I buy something I really like, due to cost, I'm probably not going to go out and change it. I won't go out and buy the mares fin i mentioned, because I already bought and like the jets.
I do believe that split fins are largely a marketing and advertising gimmick, Like I said, I tried them...a lot. My wife sort of felt the same way, didn't really like them and got rid of them. She hated the jet fins...she felt they were too stiff, heavy and ugly.
I agree with what you said about the mammals and fish you mentioned, but it doesn't really apply in the real world to us human divers....in my experience.
The flight reference you make doesn't really apply either, none of the stabilizers, stabilators, aelirons or other flight control surfaces on most aircraft surfaces are split. I'm an aircraft machinist as well as an aircraft structural repair mechanic (sheetmetal) based on my knowledge of working on airplanes and helicopters, I'm not aware of any flight control surfaces being split.

In general, a faster moving aircraft (F-16 for example, has much smaller trim tabs that a bigger and slower moving airplane like a C-130).
Us divers with all of the gear, are relatively big and slow moving.
Applying flight theory to split fins, might make for a great sales pitch. (Tongue in cheek statement follows) But in regards to flight, man once thought that he could just strap some wings to each arm and mimic birds......the early experiments didn't work out that great, these 'test pilots' couldn't flap their arms fast enough to make this system work....so much for theory. Not a favorable power to weight ratio.
My example of a split and flexible canoe and kayak paddle, still stands.
Theory and opinion aside....it's all about feel. For me it's the jets or something like the Mares style of fin (whatever that style is called)
Ultimately when someone asks about a certain fin, the only useful response is yours and my opinions of how the various fins feel...that's what it's all about. The rest of it is for entertainment purposes only. Man, this turned into a long post...today, I really have too much time on my hands.
Take care, Coalcracker...good post. I'll see ya around.

Regards,
Mitch

 

[UncleJoes]

To the OP TRY a pair of anything before you buy them. You will allways find ppl who love or hate any product you ask them about. There are rarely ppl who will give you a neutral response.

The thing alot of posters forget is that what you feel is "best" may only be best for you. Every diver is different and as such uses different gear.

During a dive a few months ago a friend and I switched fins (mid dive) so he could try out my Jets. I used his Mares Volo fins (I think?) while he tried mine. They were utterly useless, especially for frog kicking. They bent in the middle of the fin during the kick, so they produced no thrust.

I have heard this argument before from people switching from either a heavy or very stiff fin to my Volos. Volos are designed to reduce effort. The Idea is that you use a relaxed elongated stroke and move farther with less effort. As an amature photographer I really like them for their superb agility.

I have tried the Atomic splits, and just about all others.(splitFins that is)
I personally chose the Black Xpert Zoom fins, by Tusa. I think they are a decently stiff fin, not the most stiff, and not the softest, a good medium.
Just my .02
Corey
Oh BTW, I dont silt up the bottom , nor am I just a Flutter kicker.

Have you tried the MARES Raptor yet? The whale tail thing looks interesting but I haven't heard anyone's opinion yet. Of course they were just released mid August.

I do believe that split fins are largely a marketing and advertising gimmick, Like I said, I tried them...a lot. My wife sort of felt the same way, didn't really like them and got rid of them. She hated the jet fins...she felt they were too stiff, heavy and ugly.

Applying flight theory to split fins, might make for a great sales pitch.
For me it's the jets or something like the Mares style of fin (whatever that style is called)

First let me say thank you for your opinion. However 75% of the instructors I know will disagree as they use and reccomend splits and/ or Volos to all of their OW students. It's not called "natures wing technology" for nothing. It's great that Jet's work for you but the truth is not everyone dives like you. Your opinion is 100% valid and welcomed though!

 

[Pullmyfinger]

First let me say thank you for your opinion. However 75% of the instructors I know will disagree as they use and reccomend splits and/ or Volos to all of their OW students. It's not called "natures wing technology" for nothing. It's great that Jet's work for you but the truth is not everyone dives like you. Your opinion is 100% valid and welcomed though!

Good point about trying fins out, Joe. If someone tries a new fin out for just a few minutes, they haven't had enough time to get used to the new feel.
as for instructor recommendations, it is very much industry driven. I got certified at a shop that sold primarily scuba pro (TUSA manufactured regulators) equipment. Needless to say all of their instructors used exclusively scuba pro gear, and naturally recommended scuba pro gear. My instructor in particular told me that when he first started working at this shop, he had to switch to scubapro gear. All the instructors got a pro deal on scuba pro stuff, so every one of them used a knighthawk BC, various models of scubapro (Tusa) regs. and Scubapro split fins.
I have no problem with this at all. If a shop is in business teaching and as a retailer, this is a great way to promote a product line and gives the shop and it's staff a more professional appearance.
My instructor also mentioned that they did push the split fins over the others, due to their being a high mark up item.
Look at it like this...it cost the same amount to machine an injection molding die to make a split fin as it does to machine one for a paddle fin.
But a split fin retails for $200 and up, a paddle fin is around $80 to $100.
No big secret there, the split fin is a dive industry embraced product and is pretty well represented in advertisements, it's a smart move for dive shops to carry and recommend them.
The ski industry does the same thing, nothing wrong with that.
Canoeing and kayaking has similar products.
As for split fins, a big point that gets mentioned often by shop staff and in advertisements is how easy and effortless they feel to use.
I won't argue with that at all, they do feel extremely easy to kick with.
Like I said earlier, the best we can do is post an opinion on how something feels.
But the fact that dive shop employees and instructors use and recommend them isn't much of a selling point.
Your point was.......75% of them use them so they must be good....I don't buy into that. As for "Natures wing technology", now that's good marketing.
Now if people like how they feel, as many divers do....well, I'll buy that.
I don't care what people use, they come in regular or "ribbed for your pleasure" for a reason.

That would be a great sig:

"75% of all instructors agree, "natures wing technology" will work for you."

 

[Bobyjimmie]

I got me some Jetfins, they were my dads and I used them for years with a kickboard for training when I swam and played water polo in high school. great for pool workouts but um sorry I like my splits for diving. I wanna relax when I dive not workout, lol.

I also used my jets when I was in the military and deargod to this day I cant understand why I used a fin that would take 10x's the work to achieve the same thing as a split fin that if used properly can produce the same effect. Thats just my opinion from my personal experience, granted alot depends on the persons kicking style too. Jets are more forgiving if you have an odd kick compared to splits that may possibly demand a little more technique.

 

[HenrikBP]

For the water I've been canoeing, kayaking and diving in, a blade with no split in it works best.....but the water may be different where you play. Mitch

The paddle analogy doesn't quite fit: you're moving the blade through the water at a right angle to the overall blade movement in order to produce thrust in a direction (approximately) opposite of the blade movement.

Not so for fins. Just an observation

To avoid thread drift; I own a pair of Atomic splits and like them. I use frog kicks almost exclusively and have no problems with that. I am looking to buy/try a pair of paddles for comparison. Back kicks however ... I need much more practice.

Henrik

 

[UncleJoes]

The Instructors I was referring to have NO shop affiliation. Acctually when I opened my shop I sought out Mares so that I could reccomend Volos to my customers.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I like the Mares Quattro Exell fin. I haven't used it, but I've tried one that is of a similar design, and really liked it. If I were to buy another fin, that would be it.

Someone mentioned in a few posts back about the technique for split fins. That may be the real determining factor in which type of fin someone will like. A persons particular body mechanics probably account more than anything else on which fin they'll like.
maybe I lack the finesse necessary to appreciate the split fin I used. I certainly never felt like the jets required 10X more effort though.

Here's the best way I can describe the feel....
The Atomics felt like they were lacking bite or grab, sort of like how it feels when someone tosses you a box and upon catching it,you realize it's empty. You were mentally set to catch something with weight and it ended up being a lot lighter than you thought. That's the feel I'm talking about. I lack the vocabulary to describe it better, sorry. So, to address the OP, that's how the Atomics felt to me......with my technique most likely effecting my opinion.

That's scuba board for ya. I came here to look up some information about a tank purchase and got sucked into a split fin thread.

Regards,
Mitch

 

[Gombessa]

Some day I hope to love my brand/style of fins as much as everybody here does

 

[ZzzKing]

Marine mammal fins, whales, dolphins, seals, sea lions, fast moving pelagic fish like tuna, etc, all have "split fins". Ducks and frogs are fine with their paddle style. Mother Nature had it figured out way before this never ending debate. The same lift that allows a 777 to go airborne is the same principle that the split fins use.

Marine mammals such as seals and sea lions have webbed feet similar to paddle fins.
Whales and dolphins have a very shallow vee, more similar to force fins than anything else.
Fast moving fish such as tuna and billfish have sickle shaped tails.

No marine animal that I know of has a deep split right down the middle like split fins. If you are aware of any, please post a photo so we can all see.

I have splits. There is one between each toe and one between each finger but I'm not a particularly efficient swimmer and wouldn't use that as an model for designing a swim fin.

 

[mkutyna]

No marine animal that I know of has a deep split right down the middle like split fins. If you are aware of any, please post a photo so we can all see.

Agreed. I'd love to see a picture of a marine creature with fins that have a long split down the middle of their fins.

Because the animal fins below (dolphin, barracuda and shark respectively) certainly look nothing like the split fins in the bottom picture as far as the split is concerned.

Oh, and for the record, I dive with Atomics split fins currently and can do a useful back kick and more often than not am not silting up the bottom although maybe by the time I have 1000+ dives I won't have that problem.