Do You Consider Solo Diving to be Recreational or Technical?

[MauiScubaSteve]

Hal - are you assuming

slightly off topic but; my member name is my take on Hawaiian language for "home of the shark"

hale is home, or house.

manō is shark

the proper familial of my member name is hale.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

"What is wrong with "posts like this" except that they show things in a true light which seems, on occasion, to make you feel uncomfortable?

Did I say there was anything wrong with your "posts like that" other than your making "posts like that" contributed to my on the fence position regarding you as one of the best candidates for moderator of my proposed pipe-dream sub-forums?

Since you are not interested in moderating said pipe-dream, the point is moot; imho.

 

[mathauck0814]

slightly off topic but; my member name is my take on Hawaiian language for "home of the shark"

hale is home, or house.

manō is shark

the proper familial of my member name is hale.

A distinction that matters about as much as where on scubaboard this forum lives, no doubt.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

A distinction that matters about as much as where on scubaboard this forum lives, no doubt.

when you type "Hal -" at the beginning of a post, I am wondering if the 'Space Odyssey computer has joined SB.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I hear no affirmative explanation as to why one would dive solo. I do not have any of these problems, I can't make any of these excuses, so ... except for the odd situation when an instructing buddy can't show at the last minute, I always dive with a buddy, and I suspect that lowers the level of risk, both for me and for my students."

This is kind of like Jax's train wrecking comments on the http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/te...light-deco-bounce-discussible-scubaboard.html thread.

To me, it is not a question of "why the dives are being made." The fact is the dives are being made. Having the Solo Divers forum (which does exist) in the Tech Forum, seems inconsistent with the certifications available for solo diving.

It does not take too long to figure out why Halemano is a solo diver.

Just so you don't have to assume too much, why not just ask me? The reason I am a solo diver is pretty much the same reason I also solo free climb, solo back country snowboard, solo river run, solo rough water swim, solo cliff dive and solo free dive. Even if I could find someone crazy enough and competent enough to join me, I have had to drag past "buddies" to the hospital too many times, and a number of my best friend's parents will hate me to their grave because "I" nearly killed their sons.

My bdb/camera caddy/infamous dive photo model started diving in Puget Sound, in '72, as Joe Liburdi's bdb/camera caddy/infamous dive photo model (beanniebrew). She will turn 60 years old soon, and with only PADI AOW ('72) she still makes shore dives that local dive pro's will not. Her hands no longer like paddling in choppy tradewind seas and hanging on to Apollo scooter handles for half of a 90 minute dive, so those kayak and scooter dives are now mostly solo.

 

[Thalassamania]

Did I say there was anything wrong with your "posts like that" other than your making "posts like that" contributed to my on the fence position regarding you as one of the best candidates for moderator of my proposed pipe-dream sub-forums?

Since you are not interested in moderating said pipe-dream, the point is moot; imho.

I wasn't aware that anyone (especially non-staff) was entitled to have an opinion on my fitness for a position that I have not been offered or have interest it.

This is kind of like Jax's train wrecking comments on the http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/te...light-deco-bounce-discussible-scubaboard.html thread.

There are differing opinions on who's hand was on what throttle at the tiime and I say that as one of the, "For-Deep-Air crew."

To me, it is not a question of "why the dives are being made." The fact is the dives are being made. Having the Solo Divers forum (which does exist) in the Tech Forum, seems inconsistent with the certifications available for solo diving.

I really don't care what the forum structure is, though I favor your proposal, for the reasons that you have given.

Ah ... but the "why" is always the most important thing, there are always things, "being done," and you have the option to emulate or repudiate them. Remember your parent's construct, "just because (insert friend's name here) did (insert stupid thing here) doesn't mean that you have to, does it?" Same thing here, either you're in control, or your being controlled, either your making the decisions or someone else is making the decisions for you. Either you are taking personal responsibly or your passing it off to someone else.

The construct of, "the fact is the dives are being made" is just a cop-out. Over the years I've won any number of cases where the defense was exactly the one that you are using now: a vain attempt to define crappy practice as "the standard of practice in the community." I've been able to trump that, every time, with: "what would a reasonable person do in such a circumstance?" So I ask you, here and now, why do you, "dive solo," when you teach?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I wasn't aware that anyone (especially non-staff) was entitled to have an opinion on my fitness for a position that I have not been offered or have interest it.

Well, I wasn't aware that anyone (even non-staff) needed to be entitled to have an opinion. I apologize if I have plurally offended you while being plurally confused because I did not quick enough see that your current path is significantly off the topic of this thread.

There are differing opinions on who's hand was on what throttle at the tiime and I say that as one of the, "For-Deep-Air crew."

Jax seemed to me to think she was entitled to an answer to "why" one would want to "deep air" in a thread whose topic was based on the premise that "deep air is happening". For a while it seemed to me that you similarly demand an answer to "why" one would want to "solo" in this thread whose topic is based on the premise that "solo is happening".

I am thankful that Deep Air (bounce) Discussion thread managed to wobble down to 300, posts, and since it did not completely derail I guess either I am not completely at fault, or perhaps I am completely at fault.

I really don't care what the forum structure is, though I favor your proposal, for the reasons that you have given.

Perhaps this thread does not have to wobble down to 300, posts, and since I value the vast majority of your opinions, the fact that you favor my proposal, for the reasons that I have given, is significant, IMHO.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Ah ... but the "why" is always the most important thing, there are always things, "being done," and you have the option to emulate or repudiate them. Remember your parent's construct, "just because (insert friend's name here) did (insert stupid thing here) doesn't mean that you have to, does it?" Same thing here, either you're in control, or your being controlled, either your making the decisions or someone else is making the decisions for you. Either you are taking personal responsibly or your passing it off to someone else.

The construct of, "the fact is the dives are being made" is just a cop-out. Over the years I've won any number of cases where the defense was exactly the one that you are using now: a vain attempt to define crappy practice as "the standard of practice in the community." I've been able to trump that, every time, with: "what would a reasonable person do in such a circumstance?" So I ask you, here and now, why do you, "dive solo," when you teach?

So, now that I seem to have a clue about what it is you are asking me "why", it seems to me that this is more appropriately addressed in the I2I forum.

 

[DevonDiver]

It is that I think ScubaBoard can HELP MORE DIVERS by discussing diving in a way that acknowledges the way the vast majority of divers in the World are diving.

You help divers by educating them about the risks involved with X, Y or Z dives.
You help divers by reminding them about what their agency recommended limits are and why they exist.
You help divers by discussing how X training does not prepare them for Y dives.
You help divers by informing them of available training options, that will enable them to achieve their goals.

In no way does it help divers by advocating diving beyond their training and capability limits.
In no way does it help divers by presenting techniques for them to exceed those limits.
In no way does it help divers by discussing the 'relative merits' of diving beyond the training.
In no way does it help divers by advocating a 'do what you want' attitude, based on a civil liberties soapbox.

Also... I sincerely doubt that the "vast majority" of divers exceed their recommended limits, or conduct deep/bounce dives.

I believe that the "vast majority" of divers turn up on holiday with a PADI c-card and go on chartered trips with a divemaster - who, in turn, schedules/plans a safe diving program that is well within the prudent recommendations made by the main scuba agencies.

Is it possible that by discussing the more aggressive dives that tourists and avid non Tech divers are making in the World, ScubaBoard could HELP DIVERS who are not going to take more than AOW?

Based on a (IMHO faulty) premise that the "vast majority" of divers conduct themselves in a manner consistent with your own (and VDGM's) attitude towards conservative diving.

Maybe that is your perception of the dive community... but maybe your perceptions are shaped by the way you dive...and the influence you have on the immediate circles of divers that dive with you.

Maybe your perspectives and practices shape your reality. However, that reality isn't universal.

Again... the driving analogy. Do you make the roads safer by educating motorists in high-speed driving techniques, appropriate to illegal speeds? Or do you maintain a strong, uniform and responsible consensus about the need to maintain to the recommended or statutory speed limits?

I can't imagine a driving instructor ever saying: "In reality, you probably will speed above the limit, or drive drunk. Many drivers do. For that reason, let's have a discussion on how you can safely drive above the statutory limit, or keep your car on the road when inebriated..."

But you'd suggest we take that approach here on Scubaboard?

I'm proposing we "also" change the way we discuss advanced recreational diving with the never going beyond AOW recreational divers; to make them safer on dives where the operators are not going to change.

Personally, I think that you, and some others, are simply seeking a justification of your own diving practices. A justification at the expense of prudent agency-recommended limitations. A justification at the expense of other diver's safety.

I DO NOT THINK SAYING "DON'T DO THIS" HAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED GOOD,

UNLESS THE INTENDED GOOD IS FOR PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY "DO THIS"!

There's never going to be a forum for "Diving Beyond Your Training Limits". What would the forum description say?

"This forum is for divers who choose to dive beyond the limits of their training and in an un-safe diving manner, as described by their training agencies. Please post here if you feel the need to justify your diving practices, against all prudent and reasonable advice you were otherwise given. To apply for membership to this forum, please contact a moderator and explain why the rules don't apply to you and how you know better than everyone else".

What if we convinced ScubaBoard that sub-forums in the Advanced Diving Discussions forum could HELP RECREATIONAL DIVERS and make ScubaBoard more popular, without making ScubaBoard more at risk than it already is with regards to "advocating" dangerous underwater activities?

Any sub-forums created in the Advanced section would be directly related to the appropriate qualifications for that diving activity. It wouldn't be an 'anything goes' forum for debate.

Advanced Nitrox - where perhaps 21% is also nitrox and deeper than 130' / ~15 minute computer stops do happen.

The training and recommended limitations for an Advanced Nitrox forum would be aligned to those given on Advanced Nitrox courses. There is no question that Advanced Nitrox could be re-defined to encompass deep air or bounce diving. Max depth for Advanced Nitrox is determined as: 40m/130ft and is no-deco.

In addition, these courses are defined as technical diving, because they feature as technical level courses with the majority of major agencies who supply this course.

Recreational Tri-mix - Again, as per the recommended limitations appropriate to the course/s provided by major agencies.

Recreational Cavern - Again, as per the recommended limitations appropriate to the course/s provided by major agencies

Recreational Wreck - each discussed from the agencies "Recreational" definitions; not from "Tech" definitions.

Easily definable as: No more than 40m/130ft linear distance from the surface. Daylight zone only. No restrictions.

I agree that the creation of specialist sub-forums within the Advanced Diving zone would be beneficial - especially on the basis that it would allow members to more easily locate and contribute to specific subject discussions. However, those sub-forums wouldn't be an excuse to flout the over-riding site rules on safe diving practices. For that reason, it may not be the 'solution' you are looking for. LOL

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't get it, what is so much better about diving without a buddy? The only reasons for it that I hear are that people can't find a buddy or can't find a buddy who wants to dive the way that they want to dive, of the economics demand it, or the shop makes them do it.

I hear no affirmative explanation as to why one would dive solo.

Ah, that's not true at all. I've stated many times why I dive solo ... because I enjoy it. That's a very affirmative explanation ... essentially the same reason why I choose on other dives to dive with a buddy.

I do not have any of these problems, I can't make any of these excuses, so ... except for the odd situation when an instructing buddy can't show at the last minute, I always dive with a buddy, and I suspect that lowers the level of risk, both for me and for my students.

The fact that you view solo diving as a problem indicates to me that it is something you should not ... ever ... do. Solo diving's as much about mindset as it is about the physical act itself. If you see it as a problem, it's something you should avoid doing.

Solo diving ... like any other form of diving ... involves certain risks. That's a given. Key is comprehending what additional risks you assume when you solo dive and either mitigate them, or decide they're acceptable risks to take. Either way, as long as the solo diver goes into it understanding what they are ... it's that diver's choice to make. We're adults ... as long as we're not endangering someone else by our choices, we're free to make them.

You said in Post 95 that you choose to be in control. So do I. The choice to solo dive is an exercise of that choice. If you choose to see solo diving as a problem, that's your choice. I see it as an expression of freedom ... that's my choice.

That's as it should be ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)