Do You Consider Solo Diving to be Recreational or Technical?

[MauiScubaSteve]

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Although I agree with halemanō's attempt to move the Solo sub-forum to another forum, I do not think it will be able to revitalize the solo board. Between the solo divers being... well solo, and the usual suspects swooping down and discorageing any new posters quest to solo, I don't believe a change in venue will help.


Halemanō, if you want some real action why don't we get togather with VooDooGasMan and work on a Bouncedive sub-forum. Start a new "Don't Do This" forum with Solo, Bouncedive, Deep Air and what ever else fits. TOS - A permission group, agree that this is something that shouldn't be done and therefore negative comments are banned, only reasonable discussion is allowed. Oh yes, don't count on it happening soon.

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Bob
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A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

Alright Bob; let's put my "Quest" out of the single thread format.

There is a lot of diving being done, World Wide, by divers with at most AOW certs. We bandy about that perhaps at most only 20% of certified divers progress past AOW (but there is really no way to say with certainty that it is even that high a percentage).

Is it not a fact that divers with only OW certs are diving Devils Throat, Small Hope Bay Lodge's deep dives, solo dives and perhaps even some of Truk Lagoon? The vast majority in typical rec gear w/ "air" AL80's?

Lately, there have been occasional comments that If I don't want to discuss the way some here want to discuss, I should go off and start my own forum.

It is not that I don't want to discuss, or even that I do want to discuss, in any way shape or form. It is that I think ScubaBoard can HELP MORE DIVERS by discussing diving in a way that acknowledges the way the vast majority of divers in the World are diving.

Is it possible that ScubaBoard was instrumental in making the Cenotes tours safer?

Is it possible that by discussing the more aggressive dives that tourists and avid non Tech divers are making in the World, ScubaBoard could HELP DIVERS who are not going to take more than AOW?

That Cenotes change was in large part a change in the way the operators operate; but I'm proposing we "also" change the way we discuss advanced recreational diving with the never going beyond AOW recreational divers; to make them safer on dives where the operators are not going to change.

If lots of prospective Devil's Throat divers were to say NO, because larger than 80 cft's are not available, I think the operators would perhaps stock a few more larger than 80 cft's.

By conducting this "Quest" on ScubaBoard, rather than creating "our own" forum, I am acknowledging the "power" of ScubaBoard; ScubaBoard reaches the most divers World Wide!

I DO NOT THINK SAYING "DON'T DO THIS" HAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED GOOD,

UNLESS THE INTENDED GOOD IS FOR PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY "DO THIS"!

What if we convinced ScubaBoard that sub-forums in the Advanced Diving Discussions forum could HELP RECREATIONAL DIVERS and make ScubaBoard more popular, without making ScubaBoard more at risk than it already is with regards to "advocating" dangerous underwater activities?

Advanced Nitrox - where perhaps 21% is also nitrox and deeper than 130' / ~15 minute computer stops do happen.

Recreational Tri-mix -

Recreational Cavern -

Recreational Wreck - each discussed from the agencies "Recreational" definitions; not from "Tech" definitions.

Kayak Diving - well I would post and maybe Nemrod would come back and post more.

This kind of discussion is sort of happening in the two threads I linked previously, in Site Support, but it definitely need more participants than currently!

 

[Thalassamania]

Pretty much as soon as I passed the PADI IE, the Captains of the boats I had been training off for 6-7 weeks said "as an Instructor you are now essentially diving solo".

That's quite true and I think it is a major error. I think that Instructors should dive with another Instructor an AI or a DM as their buddy, both as a practical matter and an example.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

That's quite true and I think it is a major error. I think that Instructors should dive with another Instructor an AI or a DM as their buddy, both as a practical matter and an example.

But here again Thal, what is happening in the vast majority of the Dive World is that, like DevonDiver typed, only rarely do we have DMT's in that position.

 

[Wookie]

And so now you do not allow solo Tech dives?

Crap, can't keep all these solo threads straight. Short answer is no, we don't. If we are on a tech charter, we double up the deck staff so the "mates" (East Coast definition, not really licensed mates or DM's, but smokin' good well experienced divers. Not counted as crew) do the jump, tie in, and conditions check as a buddy team. They are the guys that float the cup, although we use a pool noodle. Only one of my deckhands/Divemasters are helium certified, the other has started his AN/DP, but is no where near ready to tie in a 100 foot crewboat in 250 feet of water on the Wilkes.....

 

[Thalassamania]

But here again Thal, what is happening in the vast majority of the Dive World is that, like DevonDiver typed, only rarely do we have DMT's in that position.

I've you go by, "what is happening in the vast majority of the Dive World," as you know, stupidity will come sooner rather than later. Who and what you have available as a buddy is within your control, if you choose to exercise it ... otherwise your just another victim, out of control and blown hither and yon by the vagaries of the vast majority of the Dive World, I choose to be in control.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I choose to be in control.

And I can not argue with you, about your view that you feel it is the right thing for you to do.

This brings up a major "issue" with proposing Advanced Diving Specialties sub-forums; who should be the moderators?

I often read posts from you and think you would be better suited to Advanced moderation; and then you make posts like this.

 

[Thalassamania]

And I can not argue with you, about your view that you feel it is the right thing for you to do.

This brings up a major "issue" with proposing Advanced Diving Specialties sub-forums; who should be the moderators?

I often read posts from you and think you would be better suited to Advanced moderation; and then you make posts like this.

I do not chose to take a moderator's role, I prefer things as they are.

What is wrong with "posts like this" except that they show things in a true light which seems, on occasion, to make you feel uncomfortable?

I don't get it, what is so much better about diving without a buddy? The only reasons for it that I hear are that people can't find a buddy or can't find a buddy who wants to dive the way that they want to dive, of the economics demand it, or the shop makes them do it.

I hear no affirmative explanation as to why one would dive solo. I do not have any of these problems, I can't make any of these excuses, so ... except for the odd situation when an instructing buddy can't show at the last minute, I always dive with a buddy, and I suspect that lowers the level of risk, both for me and for my students.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I do not chose to take a moderator's role, I prefer things as they are.

What is wrong with "posts like this" except that they show things in a true light which seems, on occasion, to make you feel uncomfortable?

Because of the first sentence quoted above, the answer to the question is moot. If you would not consider moderating the proposed new sub-forums, the fact that your post makes me not consider you "right" for moderating the proposed new sub-forums is no longer a consideration.

 

[mathauck0814]

Hal - are you assuming that the hierarchy of forums on scubaboard.com would have any baring whatsoever as to the overall safety of diving done in the water? I guess I'm not sure I understand the purpose of your mission... recreational or technical, people inclined to solo dive are likely to do so... no matter how you order, moderate or place a post on SB...

 

[Thalassamania]

Because of the first sentence quoted above, the answer to the question is moot. If you would not consider moderating the proposed new sub-forums, the fact that your post makes me not consider you "right" for moderating the proposed new sub-forums is no longer a consideration.

I am not here for you to judge one way or another, that would be a decision that Pete would make with the advice and consent of the staff.

I'm still interested in your answer to the question I proffered (and I suspect some others are interested too):

"What is wrong with "posts like this" except that they show things in a true light which seems, on occasion, to make you feel uncomfortable?

I don't get it, what is so much better about diving without a buddy? The only reasons for it that I hear are that people can't find a buddy or can't find a buddy who wants to dive the way that they want to dive, of the economics demand it, or the shop makes them do it.

I hear no affirmative explanation as to why one would dive solo. I do not have any of these problems, I can't make any of these excuses, so ... except for the odd situation when an instructing buddy can't show at the last minute, I always dive with a buddy, and I suspect that lowers the level of risk, both for me and for my students."