Do you carry a tourniquet when diving?

[admikar]

What do I have on me that doesn't increase my profile in water and can be used in multiple applications?
Jon line and my secondary hand held light comes to MY mind.
Wrap line around limb and use light as a lever. Use rest of Jon line to secure light.
Why do people tend to go for as specific as possible solutions?
True, mission designed tourniquets works the best, but if I go by that mentality I'd need a truck to follow me around, carrying all the stuff I MIGHT need.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

What do I have on me that doesn't increase my profile in water and can be used in multiple applications?
Jon line and my secondary hand held light comes to MY mind.
Wrap line around limb and use light as a lever. Use rest of Jon line to secure light.
Why do people tend to go for as specific as possible solutions?
True, mission designed tourniquets works the best, but if I go by that mentality I'd need a truck to follow me around, carrying all the stuff I MIGHT need.

Give ad-libbed first aid some thought and keep some possibilities in mind in case the worst happens. A cut up T-shirt or pants may be just what is needed. A sharp dive knife to cut the fabric to size. Good thinking admikar…

 

[Zach The Diver]

What do I have on me that doesn't increase my profile in water and can be used in multiple applications?
Jon line and my secondary hand held light comes to MY mind.
Wrap line around limb and use light as a lever. Use rest of Jon line to secure light.
Why do people tend to go for as specific as possible solutions?
True, mission designed tourniquets works the best, but if I go by that mentality I'd need a truck to follow me around, carrying all the stuff I MIGHT need.

Jon line? Light as a windlass? Dude, respectfully, no… you’ll get yourself killed.

The MacGyver Swiss Army knife mentality is cool and all but when it comes to tourniquets specifically you will not manage the bleed effectively, particularly if it is a massive one that does indeed require a tourniquet.

What if that affected limb is your upper extremity? Think you’re gonna do all that with one hand?


You will almost certainly do nothing but waste time and energy fabricating a completely ineffective tool. If you suffer an arterial bleed you do not have the time to just “piece it together” with whatever you have on you. You’ll be in hypovolemic shock and probably unconscious before you even got your light secured.

I don’t disagree with the profile in water point. Like I said, I don’t carry a tourniquet with me underwater anymore because I determine the risk to be null on a recreational dive… but if you think all of that is a suitable substitute you’re way off.

 

[Td9984]

Is that because use of a tourniquet substantially increases the likelihood of needing to amputate?

This is the old thinking. Properly applied, a tq has no greater risk of amputation w specially when the option is death. The problem with the improvised tqs like zip ties is that they tend to cut into the tissue instead of spreading the pressure over a slightly wider area. Tq works by pressing the other tissue down to squeeze the vessel shut. This avoids damage that the thin paracord/zip ties/shoelaces et. Cause due to the cutting effect because they don't spread the pressure enough.

 

[NarcolepticDog]

Carry one in land based first aid kits. Never thought about taking one under water!

 

[Thunder Struck]

Having the tourniquet is a good start but having it in a properly deployable setup, especially for self application is important and the. Having the training to use it is key. It’s one thing to slap it on and start cranking. When do you stop? When the patient cries out in pain? Nope keep going.

You can train it on yourself. Start with you non dominant arm. Get it high and tight near the shoulder. Start cranking that thing. When it starts to hurt your getting close but you’ll have a few more cranks to go before you lock it down. Test for a lack of distal pulse.

Had a partner apply one last week to a lady who ran her own leg over. He started cranking down on it as she started to cry out. I just told her, “Ma’am, this is going to hurt. It’s part of it working.” She stopped crying out after that. Like it was a reassurance that it was supposed to do that.

No need to overthink a tourniquet. I’ve made a field tourniquet for an Iraqi civilian using material cut from his pant leg and and a 4” bolt. It served its purpose although I didn’t have enough material to tie of the windlass so I had his buddy hold it.

The commercial tourniquets are nice and are affordable for any first aid kit. 40 years ago in the Boy Scouts the teaching was only use a tourniquet as a last resort when it was likely the patient would lose the limb. Now, medical science has adapted and they can be properly applied without regard for loss of limb. At least when there is reasonable access to Modern medical care.

On a dive boat one could easily improvise a tourniquet from some trousers and a screwdriver, dive light, closed pocket knife, or even a save a dive multitool for the windlass.

 

[leavenotrace]

I’d argue compartment syndrome should at least be taught in layman’s terms. It’s easy to see how a relatively untrained person may stack TQs on a limb with space in-between them to “be safe” or otherwise stop a bleed one TQ may not be doing enough for.

that'll just add judgement points lay people don't need. they need to take the appropriate action without hesitation or debate.

You're on the slippery slope of knowledge vs action, I'm not teaching Andy Idiot about randomness in a stop the bleed, first aid, or similar OEC type curriculum. I'm also opposed to CT and MRI at the racetrack.

 

[leavenotrace]

Why do people tend to go for as specific as possible solutions?
True, mission designed tourniquets works the best, but if I go by that mentality I'd need a truck to follow me around, carrying all the stuff I MIGHT need.

The science and facts, mostly

What's the minimum target width for a tourniquet?

What happens when you improvise with a device too narrow?

Does your ego fill the gaps incurred by the limitations of matter?

I'm sorry, my screen failed and I'm on the road, I'm limited to the phone for now so sharing reference materials will be a week away

 

[leavenotrace]

Correct, however you do run the risk of neuropathies and other issues but- as you said- better any of those things than dead.

Let’s be real, unless you’re in a truly austere environment, Mother Nature gave you and your medevac the middle finger (in which case you shouldn’t be diving anyways barring sudden onset of freak weather), or you chose to dive in a combat zone, you are going to be under the tutelage of medical professionals well within that timeframe where appropriate trauma interventions can be rendered or- at the very least- convert your tourniquet and apply an appropriate pressure dressing.

Or if you're operating covertly, and unable to exfil exigently.

Or if you're sailing or yachting.

Off if you're somewhere remote, say Midway or Kwaj.

 

[admikar]

I don’t disagree with the profile in water point. Like I said, I don’t carry a tourniquet with me underwater anymore because I determine the risk to be null on a recreational dive… but if you think all of that is a suitable substitute you’re way off.

I guess I did not elaborate enough. This thread went from having a tourniquet in the first place to applying it underwater. I find it hard to imagine what would warrant such an action.
By all means have it topside, but all this have it at all times on you is over the top.

The science and facts, mostly

What's the minimum target width for a tourniquet?

What happens when you improvise with a device too narrow?

Does your ego fill the gaps incurred by the limitations of matter?

I'm sorry, my screen failed and I'm on the road, I'm limited to the phone for now so sharing reference materials will be a week away

You like sound of your voice, don't you?
What do you know, minimum target width for a tourniquet is 1.5 inches.......the same width of webbing my jon line is made out of. But you just made an assumption of what I use as a jon line.
Do you carry de-fib on your dive? I mean, it's recommended by science as best thing to get your heart pumping again if it stops.
Look what I said above.