Do you carry a tourniquet when diving?

[Waterwulf]

Can't travel now, record it on yourself and post it here.

Nah, you won't get the full effects that way and it wouldn't be nearly as much fun!

 

[leavenotrace]

I guess I did not elaborate enough. This thread went from having a tourniquet in the first place to applying it underwater. I find it hard to imagine what would warrant such an action.
By all means have it topside, but all this have it at all times on you is over the top.

You like sound of your voice, don't you?
What do you know, minimum target width for a tourniquet is 1.5 inches.......the same width of webbing my jon line is made out of. But you just made an assumption of what I use as a jon line.
Do you carry de-fib on your dive? I mean, it's recommended by science as best thing to get your heart pumping again if it stops.
Look what I said above.

The college likes it enough they pay me to lecture students, I like it enough I bought a bull horn in college. The state likes what I say enough to keep me as instructor cadre as well.

I carry my Zoll around, yes. I also carry a tourniquet as I'm 30% more likely to use it to save a life out of hospital.

The defibrillator is useful in some stopped heart scenarios but not all of them; it's science. I use the EKG to determine what comes next - the lightning or the drugs.

I teach this material on a monthly if not more frequent basis. Are you paid for your thoughts opinions and experiences in tourniquet use in austere scenarios?

 

[admikar]

I also carry a tourniquet as I'm 30% more likely to use it to save a life out of hospital.

How many times you used it underwater?
Why the f* are you all making this as "it's never to be used" statement?
I've heard of more cases of diver dying due to heart attack while underwater than I have of bleeding out while underwater.
By all means, carry one with you, but where do you draw a line? How likely something has to be for you to consider taking another item with you? In diving, not the general life as you tried to make the case above.

 

[scottgrizzard]

I carry one in my diving first aid kit. Since an almost-incident at Buford, I also carry Narcan in my first aid kit.

 

[Waterwulf]

There sure is a lot of hostility about something as simple as a tourniquet. It's actually confusing. If you don't want to carry one, then don't. Why beat on others if they do? Does it scare you to think about bleeding out? Making comparisons between a tourniquet and a Defibrillator is ridiculous and confrontational. What exactly is the big deal? It's a small package! Most of them come with a strap on pouch so you don't even have to put it in a pocket.

Why do divers carry spare masks, submersible buoys, bottom anchors, flares, whistles, locator beacons, line cutters, bail out bottles, knives, Octo's. lights, etc, etc, etc.? Because Sh** happens! Every one of us should have been trained to evaluate each dive and decide which items to take along "JUST IN CASE". For example: A spare mask for a dive with a max depth of ten feet? Why? It's just something extra to get lost. However, if that ten foot deep dive is a three mile long drift dive in a river with no exit points for that distance, a spare mask is a good idea. I don't think I'd wear my RBFK (That's R for Really) on that same drift dive because it would frighten the Snow Birds but I would certainly carry multiple line cutters.

My tourniquet rides with me on a strap on my gear out of the way and almost forgotten. It's there if I need it or if somebody else needs it but I have never used it in almost sixty years of diving. Does that mean I'll never use it? I also carry a bag of survival gear in my off road race car and have never used that but I'll continue to carry it since the alternative could be death. Same for my tourniquet.

In thirty years of law enforcement, I saw many instances of tourniquets saving lives. In all of my years of diving, I have only ever seen one instance of a tourniquet being used and that was on the boat for an injury received during the dive. Funny thing about that incident. The divers calf was ripped open to the bone. The bone was exposed from the back of his knee to his ankle and leg "stuff" was hanging out. They had to use a tourniquet to stop the bleeding.

He told us when he got out of the hospital and returned to diving that he knew he was bleeding out. He kept trying to pinch it off but couldn't swim that way and was still deep underwater. So he let it bleed and headed for the boat. When he returned to diving, We all kind of chuckled at him because he had added a couple of tourniquets to his gear. Back then, they looked like garrottes and could have served the same purpose so we all pointed at ourselves and said "Friendly". He told us that if he had a tourniquet that day, he would have stopped swimming to put it on. He almost died from blood loss that day. I had one by the next dive and have never been without one since.

Bottom line is that it's a personal choice. If you don't want one on your gear, don't! But, why beat on other people because they do want to carry one? Why the questions about using it underwater? Personally, if my leg looked like that mans did that day and I had a tourniquet, I would have hovered upside down, while singing the Star Spangled Banner into my regulator while keeping beat with my good leg if that's what it took to apply it.


admikar: I ask you again: Have you ever watched anybody bleed out?

 

[admikar]

There sure is a lot of hostility about something as simple as a tourniquet. It's actually confusing. If you don't want to carry one, then don't. Why beat on others if they do? Does it scare you to think about bleeding out? Making comparisons between a tourniquet and a Defibrillator is ridiculous and confrontational. What exactly is the big deal? It's a small package! Most of them come with a strap on pouch so you don't even have to put it in a pocket.

Why do divers carry spare masks, submersible buoys, bottom anchors, flares, whistles, locator beacons, line cutters, bail out bottles, knives, Octo's. lights, etc, etc, etc.? Because Sh** happens! Every one of us should have been trained to evaluate each dive and decide which items to take along "JUST IN CASE". For example: A spare mask for a dive with a max depth of ten feet? Why? It's just something extra to get lost. However, if that ten foot deep dive is a three mile long drift dive in a river with no exit points for that distance, a spare mask is a good idea. I don't think I'd wear my RBFK (That's R for Really) on that same drift dive because it would frighten the Snow Birds but I would certainly carry multiple line cutters.

My tourniquet rides with me on a strap on my gear out of the way and almost forgotten. It's there if I need it or if somebody else needs it but I have never used it in almost sixty years of diving. Does that mean I'll never use it? I also carry a bag of survival gear in my off road race car and have never used that but I'll continue to carry it since the alternative could be death. Same for my tourniquet.

In thirty years of law enforcement, I saw many instances of tourniquets saving lives. In all of my years of diving, I have only ever seen one instance of a tourniquet being used and that was on the boat for an injury received during the dive. Funny thing about that incident. The divers calf was ripped open to the bone. The bone was exposed from the back of his knee to his ankle and leg "stuff" was hanging out. They had to use a tourniquet to stop the bleeding.

He told us when he got out of the hospital and returned to diving that he knew he was bleeding out. He kept trying to pinch it off but couldn't swim that way and was still deep underwater. So he let it bleed and headed for the boat. When he returned to diving, We all kind of chuckled at him because he had added a couple of tourniquets to his gear. Back then, they looked like garrottes and could have served the same purpose so we all pointed at ourselves and said "Friendly". He told us that if he had a tourniquet that day, he would have stopped swimming to put it on. He almost died from blood loss that day. I had one by the next dive and have never been without one since.

Bottom line is that it's a personal choice. If you don't want one on your gear, don't! But, why beat on other people because they do want to carry one? Why the questions about using it underwater? Personally, if my leg looked like that mans did that day and I had a tourniquet, I would have hovered upside down, while singing the Star Spangled Banner into my regulator while keeping beat with my good leg if that's what it took to apply it.


admikar: I ask you again: Have you ever watched anybody bleed out?

If you are asking about bleeding out from a cut-no. But did watch a few die as they bled out in situations where tourniquet would not have helped.
And once more no, it wasn't me that started the attacks.
I agree with you on all the equipment you mentioned above. I carry a lot of that, but not all at the same time. I carry it if risk assesment of that dive requires it. My risk assesment for the dives I do says that bleeding out is such a small chance that it doesn't require to have tourniquet. If the unthinkable happens, I'll use what I have on hand. Imediately, my ego was called out, closely followed by my knowledge and my capabilities.
Yes, purpose designed tourniquet works the best, but I seem to recall instances where people came to satisfying results using what they had on hand or even before tourniquet that we are now speaking about was invented.

 

[Micko1974]

Bungee cord is great for this and also saves many a dive.

 

[Waterwulf]

If you are asking about bleeding out from a cut-no. But did watch a few die as they bled out in situations where tourniquet would not have helped.
And once more no, it wasn't me that started the attacks.
I agree with you on all the equipment you mentioned above. I carry a lot of that, but not all at the same time. I carry it if risk assesment of that dive requires it. My risk assesment for the dives I do says that bleeding out is such a small chance that it doesn't require to have tourniquet. If the unthinkable happens, I'll use what I have on hand. Imediately, my ego was called out, closely followed by my knowledge and my capabilities.
Yes, purpose designed tourniquet works the best, but I seem to recall instances where people came to satisfying results using what they had on hand or even before tourniquet that we are now speaking about was invented.

Yeah, the chances are pretty slim of getting run over by a boat or getting cut badly or having an anchor line loop snap off a hand or a fishing line snap tight and cut deep or getting shot in the leg by your buddies spear gun or or or or or etc; etc. etc. The individual chances of any of those things happening are slim but they are cumulative.

If you don't want to carry one, don't but why attack others for doing so? And yes: Ridiculing, nay saying, arguing against, etc. are all attacks. So justify them. Explain why the attacks. You've explained why YOU don't want to carry one so please explain why you attack others for doing so. No, you didn't start the attacks but you seem to be the most vocal right about it.

Yeah, tourniquets have been used for a long time prior to the pretty store bought ones showing up. Yeah, a lot of lives got saved by using Garrotes, ropes, bungees, strings, etc. etc. A whole lot of arms and legs got damaged or destroyed by them too from nerve damage and/or improper usage. It's easy to screw up using a Garrotte as a tourniquet but it's difficult to screw it up while using a real life purpose made one.

So go ahead and don't carry one. You or some other diver will never need it..... probably.

 

[wlecyt40]

In 18 years as a medic, I have used an EKG machine on a daily basis. I have used a tourniquet a handful of times. As a combat lifesaver in the Army, I have used the tourniquet a handful of times. As a diver, never. Does this mean I don't have one. No, I have two. I also carry an airway kit (no airway, no patient), a bleeding and shock kit and other equipment that my experience has deemed necessary for me, myself, to carry. My wife is a trauma nurse with 35 years of experience in trauma, cardiovascular and emergency medicine. Between the two of us, we fitted out jump bag to have what we felt necessary WITHIN THE SCOPE OF PRACTICE according to the law of whatever state we find ourselves in. I carry a Missouri paramedic license, but it means bupkus in another state. My national registry says I can carry out basic life support procedures and nothing else. Many states have Good Samaritan laws which cover us as we attempt to save lives.

I don't carry a tourniquet in the water. It's not that I have not found the need, but that I don't want to carry additional equipment and add weight. I know, I know; it's not that heavy. I get it. It's also a question of personal choice. I have never found the need to use one while diving. The airway kit on the other hand, I have but it would be useless underwater, just sayin'.

If you want to carry the tourniquet, more power to you and I salute you.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I don't carry a tourniquet in the water. It's not that I have not found the need, but that I don't want to carry additional equipment and add weight. I know, I know; it's not that heavy. I get it. It's also a question of personal choice. I have never found the need to use one while diving. The airway kit on the other hand, I have but it would be useless underwater, just sayin'.

If you want to carry the tourniquet, more power to you and I salute you.

When I took the rescue diver course, I found it stupid, exceptionally fracking stupid, that there was an expectation that one would have a CPR mask on them while diving to do rescue breathing while towing a body subject back to shore or boat.

On the range, I'm paring back from a great big, well, medium, industrial first aid kit* to a small box w/ a couple of CAT tourniquets, a couple of Israeli bandages, a pair of compact chest seals, some quick-clot type gauze for packing, gloves, and the phone number to the radio room and the nearest Level 1 trauma center (12 miles distant).

*I am gonna forgo the aspirin, antacids, and bandaids I've been toting in that kit; if someone has a boo-boo or a headache, they can schlep their happy ass up to the range house for those kinds of things.