Dive sites//charters solo diving

[Teknadv3x]

The owner knew that the diver was diving solo. The owner made the choice to allow the diver to dive solo. To answer your question the owner could have not let the diver dive that day.

Before someone asks, the diver had ow cert only. He had 4 logged dives in 2003 all being his ow evaluation dives. 0 dives until 2007 when he did 4 solo dives on two different dates at Athens. So the diver in no way was qualified nor equipped to do solo dives.

Out of curiosity how do you know for certain the owner knew he was going to be diving solo and just said ok go dive?
We live in a society that wants to blame (for the money) everyone but the knuckleheads doing the dives w/o training. Maybe the knucklehead should ask himself ,why did they tell me several times during my OW training always dive with a buddy? If the knucklehead wants to dive beyond his training then so be it thats what we call excercising ones freedom of choice. If that choice costs him his life than blame Darwin not the park owner and in addition I think the Park owner should bring a lawsuit against the knucklehead's family for letting him go solo diving when they knew damm well he was not certified to do so. And while we are at it lets bring a lawsuit against the parents of the knucklehead for not properly teaching him to obey damm rules in the first place and so on and so on.
The bottom line is I think congress should be held responsible for not outlawing scuba diving all together because it is a dangerous activity and people could die or be paralyzed for the rest of their life if something goes wrong. That way we would not to have to blame everyone but the knucklehead for the knuckleheads bad choices.

 

[texdiveguy]

Before someone asks, the diver had ow cert only. He had 4 logged dives in 2003 all being his ow evaluation dives. 0 dives until 2007 when he did 4 solo dives on two different dates at Athens. So the diver in no way was qualified nor equipped to do solo dives.

In seeing what you have indicated by your history on this diver....he was def. not ready for solo diving....sounded more like a scuba review might be more in-line for him.

Question--- you are a scuba instructor....in your professional opinion when does a diver become qualified to do solo diving (assuming this is what the diver wants to do)....do they have to complete a solo diver cert. course.....or can they gain skill and experience thru practice.....do other levels of training prepare the diver for solo diving...?

 

[Joe-Diver]

I haven't read through this whole thread, but you can add Possum Kingdom Lake to the list of "no solo diving".

Reference 11b of the Regulations for Governance of Brazos River Authority Lakes and Associated Lands, under authority of Texas Water Code 51.127.

Not that I've ever seen the BRA Lake Patrol ever pop anyone....but it is against the rules.

 

[Pearldiver07]

After reading and joining into this discussion, a new side of it struck me.

As Frank aluded to (but didn't exactly say-so I'm inferring here), he didn't worry about Solo Diver certification until the lawsuit. It comes to me that this came about because a lawyer discovered the cert exists, and thought he had leverage.

It almost seems that the creation of a solo diver certification has brought this issue to the forefront even more so. Frank, and other operators, now have to negotiate a new level of standards that was arbitrarilly created when the certification was introduced.

Granted, the certification now says that you know what equipment to have, have at least 100 dives under your belt, and have some training. But the operator could have easily asked these same questions and made the same conclusion based on your other training and experience.

Now the "convenience" of the Solo Diver card has actually created another layer of concern when operating.

Any reflections on this?

 

[scubadale]

Out of curiosity how do you know for certain the owner knew he was going to be diving solo and just said ok go dive?
We live in a society that wants to blame (for the money) everyone but the knuckleheads doing the dives w/o training. Maybe the knucklehead should ask himself ,why did they tell me several times during my OW training always dive with a buddy? If the knucklehead wants to dive beyond his training then so be it thats what we call excercising ones freedom of choice. If that choice costs him his life than blame Darwin not the park owner and in addition I think the Park owner should bring a lawsuit against the knucklehead's family for letting him go solo diving when they knew damm well he was not certified to do so. And while we are at it lets bring a lawsuit against the parents of the knucklehead for not properly teaching him to obey damm rules in the first place and so on and so on.
The bottom line is I think congress should be held responsible for not outlawing scuba diving all together because it is a dangerous activity and people could die or be paralyzed for the rest of their life if something goes wrong. That way we would not to have to blame everyone but the knucklehead for the knuckleheads bad choices.

Email sent to diver to let him post his experience and then owners knowledge that diver was not solo cert.

I think the freedom of choice issue is right on. Society in general wants to place blame on anyone but the knucklehead when things go wrong.

 

[scubadale]

In seeing what you have indicated by your history on this diver....he was def. not ready for solo diving....sounded more like a scuba review might be more in-line for him.

Question--- you are a scuba instructor....in your professional opinion when does a diver become qualified to do solo diving (assuming this is what the diver wants to do)....do they have to complete a solo diver cert. course.....or can they gain skill and experience thru practice.....do other levels of training prepare the diver for solo diving...?

In my opinion skills and experience speaks volumes compared to a card. I am NOT solo cert so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to express opinions to that. For other types of dives, many people dive greater than 60 feet without the deep card, at night without the night card, I could go on with the number of specialties available that people dive without have a card. There are ways to verify knowledge and skills without seeing a card. Expressed another way. Who would you consider an advanced diver - diver A has 250 logged dives of varying experience, diver B has 10 logged dives and an AOW card?

I will say that an operator requiring a solo cert for a Flower Garden trip should also require the following specialties: deep, night, boat, photography (for those wanting to take pics), and any other specialties as appropriate. If a dive op doesn't require the specialties listed above for the dive, why do they require the solo specialty to dive solo? Their policies would seem inconsistent.

As a business owner if the op wants to require all, none, or some of the above certs then I have no problem with that, it is THEIR business and they can run as they see fit. I would let others know that I don't agree with their policies and find other ops that accommodating to my type of diving, as I am sure some people don't like me nor my shop policies and shop elsewhere.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

I will say that an operator requiring a solo cert for a Flower Garden trip should also require the following specialties: deep, night, boat, photography (for those wanting to take pics), and any other specialties as appropriate. If a dive op doesn't require the specialties listed above for the dive, why do they require the solo specialty to dive solo? Their policies would seem inconsistent.

You're going a little overboard here. Gulf Diving is doing what their insurance company has instructed them to do. Solo diving has shown a greater level of risk in diving than any of your other listed activities.

TwoBit

 

[LVX]

I will say that an operator requiring a solo cert for a Flower Garden trip should also require the following specialties: deep, night, boat, photography (for those wanting to take pics), and any other specialties as appropriate. If a dive op doesn't require the specialties listed above for the dive, why do they require the solo specialty to dive solo? Their policies would seem inconsistent.

Yeah, I have to agree you are going a little overboard here. Not having a photography cert, boat cert, night cert is not that big a deal. The information presented in those classes , or lack there of if you don't take them, will not kill you. Not being properly trained to solo dive might. For those like Alan who have been diving this way a long time I can understand their complaint but the regulation is really not there for them but unfortunately it affects them. The regulation is for that person who has no idea what they are doing but think because they have been solo diving at Aquarena Springs they are ready to solo dive at the Flower Gardens. Rules are always set up for the least common denominator but again it affects those with with the right experience as well.

My main problem is I do feel the Flower Gardens trips are advanced dives but there are always a lot of beginner onboard. Since it is posted as an advanced dive, should divers have this cert and not just an open water cert. I think so but I also understand that would limit the number of divers able to book trips and so it is not required. I think another way to handle it would be to check log books. Yes, I know, they can be forged very easily but still it is an option. This could cover deep and experience at the same time. But again, it would limit the number of divers coming onboard.

so, back to solo, I commend Frank and everyone down there for requiring it. I do think this training is necessary maybe not for Alan and those like him but more importantly for those who think they are Alan.... but aren't.

Layne

 

[ianr33]

My main problem is I do feel the Flower Gardens trips are advanced dives but there are always a lot of beginner onboard. Since it is posted as an advanced dive, should divers have this cert and not just an open water cert. I think so but I also understand that would limit the number of divers able to book trips and so it is not required.

Layne

Which is another way of saying that an AOW card is not required as this would impact the bottom line too much.

Solo divers are a bunch of vocal tight wads who are more trouble than they are worth

 

[texdiveguy]

This has been a good thread with lots of important data and topics brought up and some genuine heart felt thoughts....and no fights and name calling---thanks to everyone!!!!!

I hope it has served some good....I have learned a few thing and better understand the operators side of things.

Like I have said all through this thread, we all should respect and obey the rules enforced by the dive operators (parks//boats).....**never dive beyond ones skill/experience/training/gear.....use common sense.

In regards to the recreational solo cert., I have stated above in this thread but will again,,,,no issues with such training as it has a place in continueing education for those newer divers or those not experienced in solo protocols and wishing to shorted the learning curve and gain basic skills to start solo diving.

Buddy diving, team diving and solo diving can and is all fun.....be safe!!