Dead Diver Reported at Spitting Cave

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victor:
As a tourist can you tell if conditions are unfavorable, the dive might be on the otherside of the Island where it is flat calm, or there is a 6ft swell here but the current will take you round the corner into an open bay where it is safe. Or vice a versa.
This is where local knowledge is essential.
As a tourist I rely on the DM and or the captain to know more about the dive site than I do. I will not let other tourists bully me into a dive as I know they, probably, know less than I do.
However if the DM says
"it should be ok, just be careful of the exit"
or
"it looks ok but it will be to dangerous under the overhang, I am canceling the dive"
then I have to rely on their local knowledge.


As a tourist- if there are 6ft. swells I am NOT going in the water. I don't care if they say it is safe or not, I am not risking my life trying to get back on the boat or something happening where I would have to surface against a wall. The dive site is right against the wall where you are dropped off. You don't go further out to sea because it drops really fast there. I go on my own instincts and I take responsiblity for myself and my actions. Like I said before- I love spitting caves, but there is no way I would dive it with 6ft swells. I wouldn't dive any site anywhere with swells that high even if it wasn't against a wall.
 
Sharkbaithawaii:
so whats your take?

I think it should be a team decision. The captain sees the top and the DM/instructor knows what's going on below. I've been on boats where the DM/instructor will go on the ladder, take a look and give his 2¢. Who cares what company the captain or the dive staff is from, for that day, that charter they are a team and should work together on providing safe conditions and safe dive sites for their divers. Also they should know the skill level of their dive guest. Like asking the diver - BEFORE the charter - their experience level, when they dove last etc.
 
One of the definitions of hero is somebody "just doing their job" putting themselves in harms way for someone else's benefit. By this definition any combat soldier pretty much qualifies, as do many fire fighters, police, paramedics etc.

Re soldiers, you may or may not agree with the war, the politician that put them there, or the political leanings of the country that puts them in harms way. None of that detracts from the heroism of the individual on the front line - wherever that front line might be.

Most (not all) soldiers are "just doing a job" poverty, lack of options, desire to "get out of town", desire for adventure force or lead them into the job.

Felt this needed to be said. Too many people confuse the soldier with the war.
 
well....there you have it.

WC, I have been looking for a quote I like for my sig....may I quote you, sir? On-float's was a little too long, but that will fit nicely. (pulled)

Keep an eye on the Advertiser folks...some editorials cookin' , I hear. (about Spitting Caves, and the deaths there)
 
Last word on the Hero subject and then let's please return back to the OP's topic.

Everyone has their own idea of what a hero is: Superman, mom, war vet or who/what ever. If this idea does not agree with you there is no reason to demean or question that persons view - there is no right or wrong. So, think what you want, respect it and move on.

catherine96821:
well....there you have it.

I have been looking for a quote I like for my sig....may I quote you, sir? On-float's was a little too long, but that will fit nicely.


I don't think so :wink:...lol

Keep an eye on the Advertiser folks...some editorials cookin' , I hear. (about Spitting Caves, and the deaths there)

Let me know when it's in there...we don't get that paper
 
A couple of articles on the diver ...


St. Paul man, just back from Iraq, dies in diving accident

He returned to his unit's base from Iraq on Mother's Day and was planning to come home to St. Paul next week.


Just a week after finishing a tour of duty in Iraq, Army Lt. Col. John H. died while scuba diving off the island of Oahu in Hawaii.
H, 46, had planned to return home to his wife and family in St. Paul a week from today.

Instead, on Thursday, his wife will fly to Honolulu to retrieve his body and attend a memorial service with his military comrades.

H's body was identified by the Honolulu medical examiner's office Monday, but the cause of death has not yet been released.

He had gone diving with a group of eight others and a dive master. The other divers saw him rise to the surface; he was unconscious when they pulled him onto the boat about 9 a.m. Sunday.

The area is known to be dangerous and at the time ocean conditions were rough and the weather was windy, authorities said.

"We're having a pretty rough time," H's wife said Monday night.

H left for Iraq last June with the 322nd Civil Affairs Brigade, based at Fort Shafter on Oahu. He served with a multinational unit at Camp Victory in Baghdad.

Mrs. H. said she spoke to her husband about once or twice a week on the phone and every day via e-mail while he was in Iraq.

"It was a very hard year," she said. "[But] not as hard as it's going to be."

H also had served in Bosnia, South Korea, Peru and Guatemala. He spoke fluent Spanish.

Mrs. H. said her husband enjoyed helping countries recover from war.

"He was extremely proud to be in the military," she said. "The military was his real career."

H grew up in Danbury, Conn., and studied at West Point. After 11 years of active duty in the service, he moved to Minnesota where his first wife lived.

H and Mrs. H , an emergency room physician at Regions Hospital in St. Paul, have been married for six years.

She said H's love for scuba diving started in Costa Rica, where they own a home. H was always active, often continuing to play sports he loved as a youngster while he was in the service.

He played hockey in high school and joined a men's adult league while serving in South Korea. He also competed in the Marine Corps and Twin Cities marathons after taking on competitive running because his wife was a runner.

"John was an easygoing, optimistic guy," she said. "He was unassuming. He took things as they came."

H has two children Aidan, 15, and Patrick, 10, from his first marriage and two stepchildren, Andrew, 20, and Beth, 18.

He also is survived by his mother, Mary B. of Massachusetts, and father, Edward, of Connecticut; six sisters and two brothers.

Funeral services will be June 1 at Holy Spirit Catholic Church, 512 S. Albert St., St. Paul. A visitation will be held May 31 at the O'Halloran & Murphy Funeral Home, 575 Snelling Av. S., St. Paul.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/449137.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

St. Paul man dies while scuba diving
A man who died while on a scuba diving tour was identified Monday by the city medical examiner's office as John B. H, 46, of St. Paul.

H went diving off Portlock near Spitting Caves on Sunday morning and was found by another diver, said fire Capt. Terry Seelig.

Paramedics and other emergency personnel couldn't revive H, and he was pronounced dead aboard the dive boat that carried him and about a dozen other people on the tour, officials said.

Tour officials told authorities they saw Hennessey was having trouble, but they couldn't reach him in time.

Ocean conditions were rough and weather conditions were windy Sunday, bringing in choppy 4-foot waves.

The area is known to be dangerous, and it is even more hazardous when ocean current runs strongly, Seelig said.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/14647621.htm?source=rss&channel=twincities_local

Marc

Removed divers name
 
tear jerker.

thanks for humanizing the victim.
 
Thanks for the info, FLL.

You (or a mod) may want to edit the post to remove the victim's name per the TOS (or at least what I understand to be the TOS - I honestly haven't read them myself).

I'd hate for his family to do a google search for his name and have to read some of the off-topic hero/not hero stuff in this thread.

I also wanted to point out that I don't think it was necessarily unreasonable for the victim to carry out this dive, even if swells were 6' or larger. We do dives around here in 6'+ seas on a regular basis and I wouldn't consider seas that large to necessarily be that big of a deal.

I don't know this site and I don't know what conditions looked like on the day of the accident, but I don't think it is unreasonable to "trust" a dive operation regarding whether a site is safe to dive given the then prevailing conditions. I am going to make my own judgment based on what I can observe and might call the dive or at least ask some pointed questions if there's something bothering me, but I'm going to give the dive op a pretty strong benefit of the doubt in this area, given their vastly superior knowledge about local sites.

--Scott
 
I also wanted to point out that I don't think it was necessarily unreasonable for the victim to carry out this dive, even if swells were 6' or larger. We do dives around here in 6'+ seas on a regular basis and I wouldn't consider seas that large to necessarily be that big of a deal.


The site is up against a volcanic rock formation. More important than the measurement of the "swell" is the direction from which it comes. From the south, the dive site turns into a dangerous surfbreak. The monk seal was shot there, you can see the wall dropping straight down and the surf breaking above his head. The land shot is the rugged topography around the corner...

Most of the locals are taking the stand that it should not have been done that day, in their opinions. The boat captain I respect the most is not a conservative guy.

He grew up here and can make calls regarding conditions that are difficult for the newer captains to make. There is no way for a "tourist" to know this. That is my position and I echo Victor:
This is where local knowledge is essential.
As a tourist I rely on the DM and or the captain to know more about the dive site

Even if it comes back that he had a medical problem, he was in a place where he could not be reached for rescue. (We are not jumping up and down over one random accident). This trajic outcome is repeating itself over and over, in one place. Not limited to divers. It appears the Fire Department is getting fed up. They get to the scene and can't do much but ask "why are people getting in THIS?"

It is a seductive place, Spitting Caves. I see clearly why it is claiming it's toll. It will always call divers...we need to limit who goes and when. If they decide to go on their own...that is a legitimate choice. To take people there fresh off the plane, in extreme conditions, is wrong.
 
Well I agree I wouldnt want anyone to suffer this type of tragedy in my family.
Thanks FLL for the info. Its great to know about the victim.


and true as a tourist I would rely on the team and not me, who doesnt know the place obviously.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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