DAN Members, DAN Insurance, are you, do you?

[jlayman800]

I don't understand what you problem is with DAN? ... Becky

Hi Becky, Actually, I don't have any problem with DAN. What caused me to even look up this thread is that I was with a diving class last weekend and the instructor said that DAN insurance should be a requirement and every student should strongly consider having DAN insurance. She talked about $100,000 helocopter rides and $20,000 trips in the decompression chamber. These are the scare tactics that DAN is feeding our dive industry.

It was her class so I kept my mouth shut during the class to avoid conflicting with an instructor's statements. As you can tell from my posts, I am of the exact opposite opinion. DAN Insurance is a good deal for the diving professional who is in the water real often and/or takes trips overseas frequently. For the rest of us, we are paying premiums at a rate that should only apply to the professionals. I can't understand the motivation of an instructor to tell somebody that will probably only dive 4 or 5 times in the next year that they need insurance. What horible advise.

I started reading this thread and found that the brain washing has spread across the industry. The lemmings were all saying "ME TOO" and others were being convinced.

The message that should go out is DAN Insurance is a horible investment to cover something that happens once each 10,000 dives or so. The money you send them is a waste. If it makes you feel better, send it in. Stop advising others that don't need it that is is necessary. Its really poor advise.

 

[BigJetDriver]

.. you could go with PADI's V&B insurance, or Diveassure... both of which are more expensive then DAN's insurance. Neither V&B or Diveassure are contributing money to Hyperbaric research, nor have a dive accident hotline staffed by knowledgable individuals.

Make your own choice, I guess. But you're likely calling DAN if an accident happens anyway, so you may as well support an organization that's working to better our sport, versus one making a profit off it.

$35 a year is a very small amount to save yourself from the following:
Having to pre-pay for an expensive chamber ride or air transport.
The hassle of haggling with your insurance company to get reimbursed.
The possibility of having your rates increased into a higher risk bracket.
Being dropped from your insurance.
Meeting a deductible.
Other non-medical charges not being covered.
And so on, and so on...

Outrageously priced... I think not.

-B.

Brandon,

Very well said! DAN gives extremely good value for the money, and they provide one heck of a lot of research and support for the whole diving community.

Thank God they exist, and, to paraphrase:

"Your DAN card....Don't go anywhere WITHOUT it!!!!"

Rob Davie

 

[miked]

I started reading this thread and found that the brain washing has spread across the industry. The lemmings were all saying "ME TOO" and others were being convinced.

The message that should go out is DAN Insurance is a horible investment to cover something that happens once each 10,000 dives or so. The money you send them is a waste. If it makes you feel better, send it in. Stop advising others that don't need it that is is necessary. Its really poor advise.

..................................................................................................................

Is it now???

As with most insurance, you are "betting" you'll need it, and hoping you don't.

From one of those you call "the lemmings": I am a recreational diver, who took an "undeserved hit". Despite your pronouncements, they do occur. That is, I didn't do "anything stupid" (your words) or "anything wrong"-(the doctor and chamber head's words). The "hit" "shouldn't have happened", but it did.

Yes, my health insurance did pick up much of the medical bills, but the Dan insurance covered $2700 of other expenses-a bad investment? Not for me.

I think the poor advice is to not have it, or the equivalent. If you do need it, as I did, then it is an excellent "investment".

 

[caymaniac]

Oh, I see. The company doesn't use a third party to provide the insurance. They provide it through a for-profit subsidiary that has an additional income of $6.7 million.
So, how much of their $5.5 million in expenses actually goes to medical costs and what are the rest of the costs? I couldn't find this information in the annual report. Is this an ENRON kind of thing?

I wonder what the $834,000 in medical cost in the non-profit company goes. Is this medical insurance for the 80 employees? Maybe so. $10K each could be close to right.

I'm an insurance agent and would like to say that I also own my own business as well as I have had 2 other buisinesses that are not SIC code unrelated to what I have now. That net profit (834)is probably not being used for medical insurance for 80 employees because at 10,000 for each would not be quite enough to cover all of them. If they have a self funded plan it would reduce the cost, but for medical - dental - life - and disability you would have to spend more than 10,000. In our state most companies will not self fund if you have under 100 employees, therefore that means they have a fully insured plan which adds allot to the cost of the insurance program that they have at DAN for their employees.
What I'm thinking is that the (834) net is after the cost of their ins. and bonus+payroll plan.
I, on the otherhand, have the DAN Ins. My largest and best Ins. co. that I use will pay for anything that is medically necesary. If I had a dive accident and I was on a liveaboard in Papau New Guinea, I would want to know that things would be taken care of as soon as possible.....which might take really long to straighten out...too long, and if you don't wire cash in some places to use the hyperbaric facsilities you might have a problem which in my estimation is NOT where you want to be at a time when you need action NOW.
Buy it, you are gambling you might need it, Dan is hoping you don't, who do you want to be right? :10:

Dive Safe,
Caymaniac

 

[Brandon]

20 years of DAN's most expensive insurance - $2000
One chamber ride- $5000+

Saving $3000 or MORE- Priceless.

I don't know how jlayman800 does his math (I mean literally, I really don't know, and I can't figure it out). Your mileage will vary.

-B

 

[miketsp]

..snip..
DAN Insurance is a good deal for the diving professional who is in the water real often and/or takes trips overseas frequently. For the rest of us, we are paying premiums at a rate that should only apply to the professionals. I can't understand the motivation of an instructor to tell somebody that will probably only dive 4 or 5 times in the next year that they need insurance. What horible advise.
..snip..

Actually if you look at the statistics for diving accidents, not just DAN, most happen to inexperienced divers. They are the high risk group, not the experienced, frequent diving professionals.

..snip..
The message that should go out is DAN Insurance is a horible investment to cover something that happens once each 10,000 dives or so. The money you send them is a waste. If it makes you feel better, send it in. Stop advising others that don't need it that is is necessary. Its really poor advise.

I just got back from a week of diving outside the country in which I live. As part of the deal, the travel agent charged me US$38 for 7 days coverage for general (health / accident / baggage loss etc) risks which specifically excluded diving risks.
In comparison the DAN coverage was for higher values, had a higher probability of being used and cost far less per day.
No way would I say it was a waste.

 

[miketsp]

Actually if you look at the statistics for diving accidents, not just DAN, most happen to inexperienced divers. They are the high risk group, not the experienced, frequent diving professionals.

I just looked it up in the latest DAN report.

"As in past years, 40percent of injured men and 50 percent of women had made fewer than 20 dives in the previous 12 months."

From the graphs you can derive that over 50% of all accidents happen to divers with less than 30 dives in the previous 12 months.

That is pretty convincing evidence why occasional divers need insurance. :11:

 

[miketsp]

..snip..
It was her class so I kept my mouth shut during the class to avoid conflicting with an instructor's statements. As you can tell from my posts, I am of the exact opposite opinion. DAN Insurance is a good deal for the diving professional who is in the water real often and/or takes trips overseas frequently. For the rest of us, we are paying premiums at a rate that should only apply to the professionals. I can't understand the motivation of an instructor to tell somebody that will probably only dive 4 or 5 times in the next year that they need insurance. What horible advise.
..snip..
The message that should go out is DAN Insurance is a horible investment to cover something that happens once each 10,000 dives or so. The money you send them is a waste. If it makes you feel better, send it in. Stop advising others that don't need it that is is necessary. Its really poor advise.

I just checked another couple of reports. I'm not going to quote them literally as it is copyright material but in all of them the main incident statistic is caused by uncontrolled ascents.
Tell me - who is more likely to have an uncontrolled ascent? The person that will only dive 4 or 5 times in the next year or a diving professional?

 

[dlndavid]

DAN is not only insurance, they are educators and promoters of save diving.
I just received my DAN "Dive & Travel Medical Guide". It is a very comprehensive guide on many diving related injuries and symptoms. It will be with me next trip for sure.

 

[detroit diver]

I think Miketsp hit the nail on the head with the experience issue. It's the once or twice a year vacation divers that are at the highest risk, not the dive professional. Lack of buoyancy control, lack of confidence, slight loss of control due to the lack of training. All this adds up to potential problems.

To say that DAN insurance is a horrible investment is not only a disservice to the inexperienced diver, but potentially a VERY expensive one as well.