Criminally negligent homicide?/Scuba Instructor Faces Charges (merged threads)

[jeter]

So after reading this whole string of postings, here is my question:

What has the gear got to do with this injury?

This is a lung expansion injury caused by not exhaling while ascending. A lung expansion injury is just as lethal with a regulator in your mouth, as without. All of the rest is simply fluff. Ascents with a breath coming from compressed air (from a submarine, a diving bell or a scuba tank) all require an open air way when surfacing.

It is simple. If the CO2 in the victims blood caused him to have an overwelming desire to breath in mid water, without the gear the victim might panic and bolt to the surface causing the air embolism. With the gear, he could stop the asscent in mid water and take a breath from the regulator. Avoid panic and avoid the sudden preasure change associated with a race to the surface.

Jay

 

[Walter]

It is simple. If the CO2 in the victims blood caused him to have an overwelming desire to breath in mid water, without the gear the victim might panic and bolt to the surface causing the air embolism. With the gear, he could stop the asscent in mid water and take a breath from the regulator. Avoid panic and avoid the sudden preasure change associated with a race to the surface.

Jay

Did you think about what you wrote before clicking on post? Take your regulator out of your mouth at the bottom of the pool. This is possibly 15 feet deep, but more likely 8 - 10 feet. There is not going to be enough CO₂ build up to cause an overwelming desire to breath in mid water even if you are twice that deep.

 

[Pearldiver07]

But I have had students who often exhale all of their air too quickly, then inhale. Granted, the CO2 aspect isn't relevant in this case, but I see no time that removing a reg will enhance diver safety during an emergency ascent.

If the air pressure is at/below ambient, the student will simply draw a vacuum with the reg in. Without it, they may accidentally draw in water.

And of course, during the ascent, there exists a good chance that at least a partial breath will be possible because of the reduced ambient pressure.

By the way, when I did my OW, we did reg-out CESAs and also "ditch-and-don" drills.

Acutally, after thinking about my OW class, I take that back about no advantage to removing the reg. One student in my OW did suck in water, then emptied her stomach contents into the ocean. It drew a very nice variety of fish!

 

[Blackwood]

With the gear, he could stop the asscent in mid water and take a breath from the regulator.
Jay

After which his instructor would have him return to the bottom to try again until he made the ascent without inhaling.

 

[24940]

But I have had students who often exhale all of their air too quickly, then inhale. Granted, the CO2 aspect isn't relevant in this case, but I see no time that removing a reg will enhance diver safety during an emergency ascent.

As an instructor, supervising the drill, how do you know if the student is exhaling and the bubbles you see coming from the reg aren't from gas expanding in the reg? If you don't see bubbles on the ascent, are they holding their breath or are they inhaling?

The best way to prepare students for the drill is by having them conduct multiple simulated CESA with MSF only. Deep breath on the surface, dive to the bottom, spit out the snorkel and slowly ascend while blowing bubbles. They get a good feel for rate of exhalation and gain confidence in knowing they can make the ascent while exhaling.

 

[jeter]

Did you think about what you wrote before clicking on post? Take your regulator out of your mouth at the bottom of the pool. This is possibly 15 feet deep, but more likely 8 - 10 feet. There is not going to be enough CO₂ build up to cause an overwelming desire to breath in mid water even if you are twice that deep.

Sure I thought about my response. Did you?

What does depth have to do with CO2 build up and the desire to breath? The student could have been CO2 loaded from breathing shallow long before he ever took the regulator our of his mouth. The stress of just thinking about having to do the drill could cause shallow breathing and increase his CO2 load.

Universty pools usually have a high diving well of to the side of the racing lanes. It will be deeper than 8 to 10 feet. You can get an air embolisim and less than 6 feet. The pool where I teach is at a dive shop. It is 12 feet deep. I do not see how you can conclude 8 - 10 feet is more likely. But none of that maters because depth has nothing to do with it.

No one has ever acussed me of not thinking before.

Just thinking,
Jay

 

[jeter]

As an instructor, supervising the drill, how do you know if the student is exhaling and the bubbles you see coming from the reg aren't from gas expanding in the reg? If you don't see bubbles on the ascent, are they holding their breath or are they inhaling?

We ask the studnet to make an Ahhhh sound and listen for it. It is impossilbe to make the sound and hold your breath.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sure I thought about my response. Did you?

What does depth have to do with CO2 build up and the desire to breath? The student could have been CO2 loaded from breathing shallow long before he ever took the regulator our of his mouth. The stress of just thinking about having to do the drill could cause shallow breathing and increase his CO2 load.

Universty pools usually have a high diving well of to the side of the racing lanes. It will be deeper than 8 to 10 feet. You can get an air embolisim and less than 6 feet. The pool where I teach is at a dive shop. It is 12 feet deep. I do not see how you can conclude 8 - 10 feet is more likely. But none of that maters because depth has nothing to do with it.

No one has ever acussed me of not thinking before.

Just thinking,
Jay

Jay, I really doubt that the exercise itself had much to do with the accident ... nor with the resultant charge of negligence. Many instructors have been teaching it for decades, and with a high level of success.

I think when the facts become known it will revolve around these issues:

- Was the instructor properly trained to teach this skill?
- Was she following appropriate procedures and safety protocols for teaching the skill?
- Were there other extenuating circumstances that inhibited her ability to teach it safely, and should she have anticipated those circumstances?

In other words, I doubt it's the skill itself that's the issue, but rather how she attempted to teach it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Blackwood]

We ask the studnet to make an Ahhhh sound and listen for it. It is impossilbe to make the sound and hold your breath.

True. But I can make a sound that would pass for "Ahhh" underwater by inhaling


My main issue with "ahh" is that it teaches exhaling rather than simply leaving an air passage open.

 

[Walter]

What does depth have to do with CO2 build up and the desire to breath?

Nothing, but time has a great deal to do with it. Swimming 15 feet takes a very short amount of time. There is not enough time for CO₂ to build up and cause a desire to breathe.

The student could have been CO2 loaded from breathing shallow long before he ever took the regulator our of his mouth.

Theoretically possible, but if that is the case, there are much deeper issues than this skill. Slow deep breaths should be a basic part of any class.

The stress of just thinking about having to do the drill could cause shallow breathing and increase his CO2 load.

The stress of thinking about the drill? You've never seen a real class have you? By the time the student reaches this point, there is no stress over this skill. It's simply another small step. This skill is not taught the first session, it's 10 - 14 or more hours into the pool sessions.

No one has ever acussed me of not thinking before.

It still hasn't happened, you were merely asked if you did think. Now that I know how you think, I won't have to ask again.