Cozumel Incident

[driftin' by]

Driftin' by - would you lke to name that poor exucse for a dive Op...?

Whoa, whoa whoa guys! Let's not go and crucify my dive op.

driftin' by, spearing fishing and chum in the Marine Park is illegal. Who did you dive with and why did you chose them?

It was NOT the DM of my chosen dive op chumming or spear fishing.... It was another DM leading another group that we just happen to cross paths with at depth. Also it wasn't a spear gun he had... it looked like just a metal rod for prodding fish out of their homes I guess? But I'm not defending that... I was disgusted when I saw it and if I wasn't already close to my NDL, I would have descended to take it away from him.

For the issue of having my Cobra pointed out by the DM, according to other posts on this tread that seems to happen frequently. I wasn't phased by it because like I said earlier, "ain't nobody going to talk me into doing something I'm uncomfortable with, unsafe or nonsensical".

I guess for the other items I mentioned, I just wish the DM's were not so eager to please and the had the balls to tell someone they're not diving when there is a potential risk. The last thing they wanna do is spoil the fun and tell you that you cannot do something. Also, like you said Don about them being macho down there... it must be something in the Cerveza? I imagine after leading divers for 10, 20 or even 30 years can make you a bit insensitive to the fact that diving can kill you. The other side of that coin is that other divers shouldn't be so eager to dive and impressionable and take the suggestions of a DM or anyone else as in the case of the last-second equipment configuration. It just makes me nervous when you combine easily impressionable people with overly suggestive ones. I think in general this is a rare occurrence or someone with some sense steps in and saves the day. I've always known that the attitude regarding and diving situations down there is "Esta bien" and that you've gotta look out for your own because no one is is going to.

My dive op was Papa Hogs and I think they did a terrific job as did the DM's we had and I'll definitely use them when I return. I can't blame them for not knowing people were not using a computer or their tables nor can I blame them for not knowing someone lost their mouth piece or was holding onto their hockey puck computer. I only hold the DM responsible for making suggestions that were risky but that is no different then anything else I've ever experienced down there. I also hold divers responsible... both those that are willing to dive at all costs and will tempt fate and those that sit on the sideline and watch wrongdoings. I'm responsible because there were opportunities for me as a responsible diver and rescue diver (not that that really matters but I do find myself more aware of potential hazards but I think that has more to do with experience) to step in and remedy a potentially hazardous situation. However there were times that I did as in the case of the kid loosing his mouthpiece with was actually with Dive Palancar. I told the DM that the kid should not be allowed to dive mainly because he slammed me into the reef as I was trying to photograph a splendid toadfish that I found on my own but I also mentioned the mouth piece incident too. If you get bent because of your own stupidity, well then.... I don't know, I don't like wishing bad things onto people but if you do, hopefully you'll learn your lesson.

I just can't hold my chosen dive op responsible and I hope no one else does either. It just seems like there are far too many liberties being taken these days and it's all because of TV.

 

[TheRedHead]

I can't figure out why the guy who lost his mouthpiece didn't deploy his octo?

I wouldn't want to dive with these strokes. I'm glad my dive op has a special boat for those who need to be babysat and given computers and taught to use them. It's the diving equivalent to the "short bus."

I "bent" my Cobra in Cozumel by neglecting to switch it to Nitrox 32 on the 2nd dive. I knew I was sending it into terminal deco and I had a backup in my pocket set correctly which I used instead. I still got a scolding by the DM, but he also made sure to take it into the shop and have the battery popped to reset it for the next day's dive.

Papa Hogs does have some fast boats, I will say that for them.

 

[TheRedHead]

I just wish the DM's were not so eager to please and the had the balls to tell someone they're not diving when there is a potential risk.

I know some who will do exactly that. They will flat out refuse to take divers to sites they are not qualified to dive.

 

[driftin' by]

I can't figure out why the guy who lost his mouthpiece didn't deploy his octo?.

That was the first thing I asked him once he told me. His response: "Oh?"

I wouldn't want to dive with these strokes. I'm glad my dive op has a special boat for those who need to be babysat and given computers and taught to use them. It's the diving equivalent to the "short bus."

I think for the most part the 'tards are kept away from the regular people. But then again, like in most situations, they're (dive ops) are relying on what the 'tards tell them their experience level is. Again, the responsibility it's up to the 'tards whether or not they're experienced enough. Did Papa Hogs ask for their log books? Probably not, nor did they ask for mine but they did inspect our c-cards thoroughly... more then anyone else ever has. However, IMHO, that still isn't enough. Anyone that pays their money and goes through the paces can obtain a c-card and it doesn't necessarily make anyone "qualified". Unfortunately, it's not like Bonaire where you are required demonstrate your skills during an orientation before they'll give you a tank.

Papa Hogs does have some fast boats, I will say that for them.

That they indeed do! And at this point in my short yet varied diving career, that is all I really need. Well, that and them be punctual, reasonable priced, let you dive your computer, reliable, experienced and knowledgeable DM's and boat captains and have well equipped boats with all the proper safety and navigation gear. I don't need to be babysat and I'm not babysitting anyone. I'm not taking shoddy advice from anyone and no matter what, am I not going to let some 'tard who accidentally stumbled on the big-boy's bus expecting the captain to set up his gear and the DM to hold his hand, ruin it for me.

Mind sharing with the dive op that manages to keep the 'tards where they belong separated from the rest?

Sorry if I offended anyone using the word, 'tard.

 

[TheRedHead]

I think for the most part the 'tards are kept away from the regular people. But then again, like in most situations, they're (dive ops) are relying on what the 'tards tell them their experience level is. Again, the responsibility it's up to the 'tards whether or not they're experienced enough. Did Papa Hogs ask for their log books? Probably not, nor did they ask for mine but they did inspect our c-cards thoroughly... more then anyone else ever has. However, IMHO, that still isn't enough. Anyone that pays their money and goes through the paces can obtain a c-card and it doesn't necessarily make anyone "qualified". Unfortunately, it's not like Bonaire where you are required demonstrate your skills during an orientation before they'll give you a tank.

The two shops I dive with the most generally will check you out on an easy dive. So you are on the short bus boat by default until you show them that you can dive. When you turn in your BC and reg at the shop at the beginning of the trip, they will chat you up and get your dive experience out of you. If you demonstrate to the DM that you can dive, manage your air, control your bouyancy, etc., then they will let you on the advanced boat to dive the deep sites. You have to hand over your card and they copy the number. They look at it, but they don't place much stock in it.

Funny you mentioned Bonaire. When I was at Buddy Dive, the orientation was a film and step off the dock and go diving. If you made it back, you passed and got the marine tag. We didn't have to demonsrate any skills. I think we went all the way down to the sand at 120 feet on our orientation dive. :lol:

Mind sharing with the dive op that manages to keep the 'tards where they belong separated from the rest?

Aldora is one that will seperate divers by ability. They have 6 fast boats. Liquid Blue is smaller, but I made some of my more challenging dives with Jorge at Liquid Blue. We did a version of Devil's Throat totally unlike any I've done at 142 feet. We also did San Juan and Baracuda. With Aldora, we dived the winward side of the island one day and that was a real adventure. Both of these shops provide either 100 or 120 cube tanks. Aldora requires divers to have computers and provides them if you don't.

I think Papa Hogs has an Advanced Diver boat you can request. I haven't dived with them.

 

[mstevens]

I use 2 and one happens to be "Stinger" and find myself having to do a deco stop to clear it out and then heading back down to finish the dive on the other computer.

Oh, dear God. PLEASE tell me I misunderstood your post!

It sounds as if you dive with 2 computers, one more conservative than the other. For some reason, after the more conservative sends you into deco and you've completed the stop, you ascend and leave that computer on the boat then descend to load more nitrogen?!

I'm sure you really mean something else, but dayum! Your first computer thinks you're on the boat offgassing when in fact you're back underwater. Why even take it if you don't trust it? You're ignoring it then diving without it, so it doesn't have accurate data logged about pressures and times. That means it's essentially a paperweight that occasionally beeps and flashes.

Please don't misunderstand me - I realize nobody is really that ignorant, and that few divers have that much disregard for their personal safety. It's just that you can never tell who's reading these posts. If I got fooled into thinking that's how you think it's safe to dive, what might someone else think?

 

[DandyDon]

Originally Posted by Ron Brandt
I use 2 and one happens to be "Stinger" and find myself having to do a deco stop to clear it out and then heading back down to finish the dive on the other computer.

Yeah, I saw this earlier, :shakehead shook my head, then got distracted by office work. :light:

He did say that, which is just about the worst approach I can think of for bubbling. A scene from "MacBeth" comes to mind, with the 3 witches: "Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble...."

Whatever Ron the very experienced Instructor is doing, he is ignoring the conservative computer - which supports my approach. Buy Oceanic, then dial in the degree of conservatism you want to dive.

 

[The Chairman]

*** Mod Post ***
Let's please keep to the original subject, to whit:

Does anyone know anything else from this incident?

Thank you for your consideration.
*** Mod Post ***​

 

[Marcosis]

I was just in Cozumel a few weeks ago . The operation I went with was a well known one. As I was talking with the DM he noticed my Stinger computor and remarked it was a conservative computer and they did MAX time at depth dives.I was taken aback as the other two divers on the boat were obviously newly certified females they met a the bar the night before diving without the aid of computors nor dive tables. We dove a deep wall dive and after slowly working our way back up I mentioned the ndl left on my computer,he waived me off,as we ran out of time my computer started beeping a warning,I motioned I was headed up to which he signaled ok and stayed down with the new divers another 10 minutes.Needless to say diving with them the rest of the trip wasn't an option. Note to self,don't depend on an operations DM to watch your back blindly.

CAPNVINNY-Thank you!
I don't care where you are or what language you speak...Bent is bent and dead is dead!
Like me or not, I'm comming home (God willing) and if I have to break away from a group of people I just met, to see my wife and kids again, See Ya!

 

[DepthCharge]

Let's see:33: .............making aggressive dives over multiple days..........and we wipe out ALL computer info and start as no dives were made:shakehead .......anyone else see a problem with this? Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but I see so many certified, UNQUALIFIED divers that I wonder why the accident stats aren't thru the roof. I'm talking about not even being able to set up their own equipment, absolutely no understanding about decompression (no such thing as a no decompression dive!), etc. At this point I better:ignore: