Charging extra for VIP??

[NAM001]

232 Bar A -Clamp Personal Air Filter at Divers Warehouse

That's not the filter. the one I think he is talking about was about the size of a check valve it had a particulant filter in it like old chevy carberator gas filter that was at the inlet to the float bowel. particulate only. the personal filter you point to is a air filter has chem cartridge in it. carbon filter.

 

[The Chairman]

AS for most LDS's I know of, what you pay for is a sticker.

So, you think they should charge more for this after the customer pays for a hydro?

A hydro trumps a VIP. A hydro every five years will not only detect exterior flaws, such as a bent tank or gouges, but it will also uncover internal flaws that a VIS could never find. I trust the physics of pressurizing a vessel to 5/3s of it's rated pressure and seeing how it reacts over people getting away with not doing their jobs or who have no idea how to do that job. I certainly remember taking the first tank I ever vised into my local LDS to get filled. I was so proud of myself, until I was told that I wasn't allowed to do my own VIPs. Wow. I had just gotten my PSI number and was amazed at this attitude. I showed him the PSI number on my VIP sticker and asked what his number was. I was even more surprised that he was never formally trained to do a VIP. He had no idea how deep a gouge was allowable nor that tanks could get bent and so on, but he was eager to deny my knowledge. He hadn't spent the time I had to learn the procedure, yet he was quite willing to deny my certification to protect his cash flow. The efficacy of a VIP depends on the tech doing the VIP. Not all shops are equal in this regard. No shop needs to do a VIP after the hydro has been done.

Hydros are mandated by law. VIPs are mandated by our industry. An additional VIP after a hydro is not mandated by law. No, a shop isn't "ripping you off" by doing a VIP after the fact. There's a lot of myths and misconceptions out there about this kind of thing. It's their shop and their rules. I actually do my VIPs before my tanks go to the hydro facility. Why hydro a tank that won't even pass a VIP?

There is more needed if you are talking nitrox or O2 tanks. They have no concern about them. Only the structural integrity to do the rcert.

Sure. But a VIP won't ensure them being clean, will it? You either re-clean them and charge extra or you cheat. BTW, I never certify NitrOx tanks to be O2 clean anymore. I won't allow any of my tanks to be partial pressure filled. Banked, blended or membrane only for me.

 

[2airishuman]

So I'm going to hold up the procedures followed by the two local shops that I use, because I think it reflects sound, fair business practices. This is what they do when a customer brings in a cylinder for hydro.

Shop #1.

1. Identifying stickers are placed on the cylinder and valve to prevent mixups.
2. The shop drains the tank and removes the valve.
3. The shop's technician performs a cursory visual inspection. If the cylinder is a complete disaster and unlikely to pass hydro, the customer is informed and the cylinder and valve are returned or scrapped, customer's choice. There is no charge.
4. Valve is repalced and cylinder is set aside for hydro. The hydro truck comes once a week on a scheduled basis.
5. The cylinder is at the hydro shop, sometimes for two weeks, and ultimately comes back.
6. Shop confirms that the hydro shop didn't mix up the valves by checking the stickers.
7. Shop applies a VIP sticker. I am unsure whether they perform an inspection of their own or not at this point.
8. Cylinder is filled with air, unless the customer asked for nitrox.
9. Customer is notified that the cylinder is ready.
10. Customer pays $35 when picking up the cylinder. (For a nitrox fill the customer also pays the difference in price between an air and a nitrox fill)

Shop #2

1. The shop drains the cylinder and removes the valve.
2. The shop owner, who is PSI trained, inspects the cylinder. If the cylinder fails, the customer is informed and the cylinder and valve are returned or scrapped, customer's choice. There is no charge.
3. If the cylinder requires shot blasting, it is set aside and the shop owner takes it to a more distant hydro facility that will provide this service, the next time he goes to his lake cabin for the weekend. (I believe that a small extra charge is passed onto the customer for this service).
4. Otherwise, the cylinder is taken to a local hydro facility the next time the shop has someone running errands in that part of town.
5. Eventually, the cylinder comes back from hydro, usually a couple weeks later.
6. The shop owner inspects the valve and replaces the burst disc with a new one, unless an odd size is required that he does not have available. If the valve leaks or is difficult to turn, it is repaired at no extra charge. For a yoke valve, the face O-ring is always replaced.
7. A VIP sticker is applied.
8. Cylinder is filled with air. (This shop doesn't offer Nitrox).
9. Customer is notified that the cylinder is ready.
10. Customer pays $47 when picking up the cylinder.

I think these are fair business practices and address the substantive safety concerns. The shops are very clear about what is included in hydro and what the price is. They do not tack on extra charges. The main difference is that shop #2 replaces the burst disc and performs valve service if needed, and charges somewhat more as a result. I believe this is part of the PSI way of doing things. I don't see how a customer could feel mistreated by any aspect of this process.

 

[redacted]

Why would an LDS send the valve to the hydro facility?

 

[WarrenZ]

Why would an LDS send the valve to the hydro facility?

Makes loading the tanks easier since they still have the convenient handle that it arrived with attached. Also keeps crap out of the tank.

 

[The Chairman]

Why would an LDS send the valve to the hydro facility?

Why would you let them??? I take the time to clean, re-lube and replace the 010 and o14 o-rings.

 

[Rred]

2air-
I've only been to one LDS, stopped in passing and noticed the fill station is "in the back" rather than adjacent to the retail area. I found out sometime later, that particular LDS did have a tank "explode" in one way or another some years ago, apparently a question of consistent owner abuse that just caught them lucky. So perhaps containment stations are like seat belts: Some people just think they are cumbersome. There's a lot of that going around.

Professionally trained highly accredited alleged experts of all kinds, from brakes and front end mechanics to plumbers and appliance repairmen, these days? Everyone rushes the job and tries to make more bucks. There's little pride in craftsmanship to be found anymore, at least not in the US. In that sense, sadly, why should SCUBA be any different? The big organizations sell the dream of "Work at what you love" and there's a constant turnover of new shops opening, new rubes burning out, new shops closing in five or ten years as they realize it can be a grind and not very profitable either.

Heck, a lot of big names (New England Divers, anyone?) have gone by the side of the road too.

 

[The Chairman]

There's little pride in craftsmanship to be found anymore,

People are quick to complain about poor craftsmanship. They are stupid slow to ever consider paying for it. They are even less inclined to wait for it. As a former Auto Technician, you'll have to pardon my bitterness.

 

[2airishuman]

Why would you let them??? I take the time to clean, re-lube and replace the 010 and o14 o-rings.

I always figured that it provided a modest amount of protection against exposure to moist environmental air while the cylinder was waiting for hydro.

 

[The Chairman]

I always figured that it provided a modest amount of protection against exposure to moist environmental air while the cylinder was waiting for hydro.

I have plastic inserts for that.