Charging extra for VIP??

[NAM001]

the hydro shop first vip's and if it is ok it then hydros.
many times do not get valves with the tank for hydro, the lds keeps them
IMO if you want to keep your tank good use the hydro shop for the hydro and your lds for vips

of course you are not required to have a vip sticker for the first year of the hydro either. very few sohps comply with that also.

there are lots of things that should be but is not done.

 

[NAM001]

VIP - lite!!! What VIP steps does the hypro facility not perform other than a final look before the valve goes back on?

The hydro shop I use looks inside for the obvious and then goes on to the hydro tank. If the inside looks like it would pass a vip they call it good. Other shops say they leave the vip to the shop and only look for major pits and rusting prior to hydro. My shop also has PSI people there but REEFUSE to apply a vip sticker. they site teh hydro date = vip date for the first year. Reality is they do not want the admin hassel when it comes to scuba tanks.

The hydro shop i have available also does not do + ratings either.

 

[WantSomeScuba?]

A hydro and a VIP are not the same procedure. If you have a good hydro facility they would check out the tank prior to the hydro and that might amount to a VIP-light. A full VIP is more exhaustive. PSI-PCI has an 18 step review and that puts some assurance your tank is OK once done right. You can also get a shop that yanks the valve, looks inside, and puts a sticker on it. Certification and training are unfortunately pretty lax.

Whether you charge a la carte, or combine the costs into a single ticket may make it appear different. Where we are hydro+VIP+fill is a standard procedure.

VIP's are much for the customer safety, they are for the shop safety. Tanks don't blow up on your back. They blow up with the shop is filling them, generally due to tank 'abuse/neglect' most often at the hands of the customer.

Nailed it. Hydro facilities (at least up here) usually deal with industrial tanks, not scuba, and do their VIP accordingly. We don't do VIPs to screw people, we do it for our sake.

I've seen a lot more "stupid moments" from dive shops than Federally-licensed hydrostatic testing facilities.

Sure, but just because somebody else is stupid doesn't mean I'm going to be any less thorough.

 

[redacted]

Nailed it. Hydro facilities (at least up here) usually deal with industrial tanks, not scuba, and do their VIP accordingly. We don't do VIPs to screw people, we do it for our sake.



Sure, but just because somebody else is stupid doesn't mean I'm going to be any less thorough.

Once again, what is the difference? Do dents and bulges not impact industrial tank (like those that could be filled with O2)? How about defctive threads or neck cracks? What about pitting and rust? Signs of heat exposure?

 

[The Chairman]

A visual inspection is required at time of hydrostatic test by the Code of Federal Regulations.

You do realize that a VIP is a legal requirement, mandated by DOT in the United States, as part of the hydrostatic testing procedure, right?

Show me this regulation, please. I've never seen it in writing.

 

[Rainer]

Show me this regulation, please. I've never seen it in writing.

49 CFR 173.34

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2000-title49-vol2/pdf/CFR-2000-title49-vol2-sec173-34.pdf

3)
Visual inspection.
Except as other-wise provided in this section, each time a cylinder is retested, it must be visually inspected, internally and externally, in accordance with CGA Pamphlets C–6, C–6.1, C–6.2, or C–6.3, as applicable. The cylinder must be approved, rejected or condemned according to the criteria in the applicable CGA pamphlet. Internal inspection may be omitted for cylinders of the type and in the service described under paragraph (e)(13) of this section. DOT 3BN cylinders must be inspected in accordance with CGA Pamphlet C–6.

 

[fmerkel]

Diver should be aware that tanks used in scuba and firefighting are put through a hostile environment that most other tanks don't have to go through.
When I took the PSI-PCI course someone from a shop brought 2 AL-80 shop tanks that had been in rental service. We inspected and condemned both. One had about 3 cups of Aluminum Oxide in it. The other had bunged up threads. This was since the last VIP. Tanks that get water in therm, steel especially, can go very bad, very quickly. How's a shop employee going to know that if the outside doesn't look seriously abused?
After the class I feel far more sympathetic toward the shop employee. OTOH, I think the shop employee should be making damn sure they have the appropriate training, tools, and facilities to fill tanks safely.

 

[The Chairman]

Except as other-wise provided in this section, each time a cylinder is retested, it must be visually inspected, internally and externally, in accordance with CGA Pamphlets C–6, C–6.1, C–6.2, or C–6.3, as applicable.

Shenanigans. It specifies that the RETESTER must visually inspect it inside and out every five years when they do a hydro. What hydro retester wouldn't do that already? You're already paying the retester for inspecting the tank, so why should we turn around and pay for the same service AGAIN??? You're taking a common sense requirement and turning it into a revenue generator. Do a search of the document, and you won't find a single reference to doing a yearly visual inspection as per industry standards.

173.300a(a) Any person who does not manufacture cylinders.. and... is not directly or indirectly controlled by any person or firm which manufactures cylinders... may apply to the Department of Transportation for approval as an independent inspection agency for the purpose of performing cylinder inspections and verifications... require by part 178.

Pay attention: If you want to do "this" inspection, a PSI or TDI cert won't be enough.

 

[Rainer]

Shenanigans. It specifies that the RETESTER must visually inspect it inside and out every five years when they do a hydro. What hydro retester wouldn't do that already? You're already paying the retester for inspecting the tank, so why should we turn around and pay for the same service AGAIN??? You're taking a common sense requirement and turning it into a revenue generator. Do a search of the document, and you won't find a single reference to doing a yearly visual inspection as per industry standards.



Pay attention: If you want to do "this" inspection, a PSI or TDI cert won't be enough.

I have NO idea why you're calling shenanigans on me. I'm specifically pointing out the requirement that the hydro tester already has to do the VIP, which makes a second such VIP by the dive shop unnecessary (it's as you say, a simple money generator; the idea that the Federally-mandated tester doing commercial hydros is somehow going to be more lax than the dive shop implementing a mere industry standard is absurd). I believe what you're looking for is "thank you".

 

[The Chairman]

I have NO idea why you're calling shenanigans on me.

It's not referring to the industry vis. It's referring to a visual inspection done by the Hydro technician as we would call them, or the "restester" as they call them.