These are the classifications you posted:
You seem to be missing the point. I was providing a different perspective which addressed the OP's question. That perspective was the 'scuba industry recommendation' - both the (very clear) direction from PADI and the (very clear) direction from the cave diving community.
In addressing those perspectives, as an answer to the OP's question, I attempted to explain why those recommendations are made...and globally supported. In doing so, I also raised the issue of 'risk rationalization' - and how that deceptive process features to a degree in most scuba accidents.
In a black and white world, you may be correct. Even then, there are shades of grey.
Which is why I felt that highlighting the issue of 'risk rationalization' was important.
It's obvious that you feel Chandelier Cave is safe. You have rationalized that belief, contrary to the industry guidelines.
Now.. I'm not saying you are right or wrong. Merely that you have done some diving that is beyond the scope of your training and which contradicts the safe diving practices that you agreed to abide by when you qualified as a diver. Those are facts - unless you are a cave trained diver.
The danger, when giving advice to less experienced divers, is that those 'shades of grey' are ultimately something that have to be determined by the individual. If the individual has little experience, or training, as a diver - then they are not well prepared to make that determination. It becomes too easy for them to 'risk rationalize' themselves into a dangerous situation that is beyond their individual capability. Hence, the scuba industry/community has drawn together recommendations which make the situation black and white - and prevents the need for inexperienced divers conducting a risk assessment that they are insufficiently trained or educated to complete accurately.
You are an instructor and qualified technical diver. So am I. I am positive that both of us have a clear idea of what is safe...and what is dangerous for ourselves. That level of risk - our personal comfort zones - may not be appropriate for lesser qualified/experienced divers.
IMHO, what's important is that divers conduct their own assessment. In that sense, you are
giving the OP an answer to his question, wheras I am attempting to
educate the OP to determine his
own answer.
In the case of Chandelier Cave, these aren't easy questions to answer
Which is why a self-determined answer, made in full knowledge of the risks, the recommendations... and the dangers of risk rationalization should be made by the individual.
Personally... I think that if the question isn't 'easy' to answer, then the answer is probably no. I see a logic and prudence to that - which fits within the parameters of safe diving practices... "always err on the side of caution". To do otherwise, is to accept the role of 'luck' in your survival.
Again... that's just a perspective... and something that I'd only
advise a diver to consider, when making their
own decision.
Yes, there is a ceiling so it's technically an overhead, but does diving in an indoor swimming pool really violate PADI OW standards? (The only difference between CC and a swimming pool is that the ceiling is a bit lower than your average indoor swimming pool and there are stalactites, hence the warning to put your hand up first - but then that's not much different than avoiding ascending under a dive boat prop).
Do you have to swim out of a submerged pipe to exit the swimming pool?
The point being, there are times when you are in an overhead environment (submerged) without
immediate access to the surface. It doesn't matter if that is only for portions of the dive... it matters that the situation exists where a diver may be unable to surface instantly. It also matters that the diver is not able to exit the dive without submerging and swimming underwater.
OW/AOW divers receive absolutely
zero training for such situations. Likewise, they receive absolutely
zero training or education on issues such as silting, light failure or losing the buddy, the exit or direction.
When making a personal determination on competence to conduct the dive in a safer manner (having mitigated all foreseeable risks)... the diver should compare the skills/training they possess against the skills/training that the dive requires (in the worst case scenarios).
Again, you might note that I am not telling anyone what to do - I am merely raising an educational point that should be factored into an individual's personal decision making and risk analysis considerations.
Namely:
"Does my training enable me to mitigate all foreseeable risks, with a reasonable level of assurance?"
"Am I aware of the full spectrum of risks and therefore making a reasonably accurate risk assessment?"
"Am I aware of my own capabilities, in relation to the risks and worst case scenarios, that I may face on this dive?"
I won't advise a diver 'yes or no' to conduct any dive - whether I have personal experience of that dive or not. I will just try and educate them on how to make their own decision.
Waiting for rescue is entirely feasible because the water is warm and there would never be conditions that could hamper a rescue team.
Any diver making their own risk determination for this dive, should pay careful heed to that statement. I guess their decision will be determined by whether they are happy to place themselves into a situation where they could be trapped, alone, in the dark, floating in water, for a prolonged and unpredictable amount of time - waiting for a rescue team to receive an alert, mobilize, travel to the site, conduct a rescue dive to extract them. Also, whether they'd be happy to filmed by the TV news - wet, scared and exhausted being escorted out of the cave to the headline of "Terrified Tourist Rescued from Underwater Cave".
I'm not sure if the rescue services charge for their services in that location , same for any medical care needed - but if they did, you insurance won't pay up - because you were diving beyond your formal certification/training level...which is a typical caveat linking insurance cover and diving activities.
So while Chandelier Cave superficially resembles a cavern, it's not a cavern. How's that for clarification?
So while Chandelier Cave superficially resembles a Chicken Biriyani, it's not a VW Beetle. How's that for clarification?
If you're going to throw away the industry/community definitions, you might as well do it in a fun way...
Humor aside... do you really think your approach is the best value, and most prudent, way to advise inexperienced divers on risk assessment. Please remember - we are trying to answer the OP's question here - rather than just 'win' a theoretical debate.
