CESA - why? I'll never run low on air!

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Rick Murchison:
There have been a couple of threads on the CESA lately, with several folks declaring it an unnecessary skill, because with "proper" diving skills you'd never need it.

Here are just two of many examples (I ain't pickin' on you two; y'all just said it clearer and in fewer words than the others :) )

It seems many folks feel the only reason anyone would want to do a CESA is in an out-of-gas situation, and since any good diver will never, ever be in that situation then the CESA is not a necessary skill.
I'd like to revisit that.
What is a "Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent" and what are some of the reasons we might want to do one? The CESA is simply the means to make an emergency ascent to the surface. Are there reasons we might want to do that other than being low on, or out of gas? I say "Absolutely!"
Because there are reasons other than "gas planning and buddy skills" that might lead to the CESA decision, the ability to do a safe CESA in the face of great stress, pain or distress or injury is an essential skill for all Scuba Divers.
What are some of those reasons?
1. CVA. A cardio-vascular accident - a survivable heart attack, stroke, etc often leaves little time for decision-making and action before complete disability to do anything useful, like informing a buddy you're in distress. An immediate CESA could give you a chance to avoid certain drowning, and to get to help on the boat in time to save your life. Every second counts.
2. Bleeding. A severe cut or bite can start the blood-loss clock; your ability to do anything may be short lived and a CESA while you can do something can once again get you to a more survivable environment.
3. Severe pain. Whether it be some internal source (sudden burst appendix or ovarian cyst or kidney stone etc) or from injury (poisonous spine, sea wasp etc), once again, pain of this magnitude may severely limit your time of useful consciousness; time to topside help is of the essence and a CESA may be your best choice.
4. Impending panic. It is far, far better to do a CESA while still in control than to allow panic to take over and do a UPA ("Uncontrolled Panicked Ascent"). Indeed, just knowing you have the option and are competent at the CESA can go a long way in keeping under controll in the first place.
---
The CESA should remain in the syllabus at the entry level; the ability to conduct a safe, rapid emergency ascent without danger of an overexpansion injury should be ingrained to the point of "automatic" in every Scuba Diver, even those who will never, ever run out of air. IOW, I think the CESA is as important in a Scuba Diver's "tool kit" as a wrench is to a mechanic.
Rick

Rick, I have never written the words "CESA should not be taught" for a reason.

And there's one really good golden reason to learn how to do it, which is that if you are underweighted and you suck your tank down to the point where you can't stay neutral and you shoot to the surface uncontrollably, you better keep your airway open on the way up. I know that I had that happen to me sometime around dive #50 and I wouldn't be here if I didn't know to exhale on the way up.

The way that CESA is currently taught, though, is in response to running out of air. That is completely back-asswards in my viewpoint since the students should be given the skills to manage their gas and stick together so that gas situations don't get to that point. But instead you read incident reports here on scubaboard of "i was at 80 fsw and gave the DM the LOA sign when I hit 500 psi and he just swam off" and the response by some posters is to want to "practice the CESA skill" instead of knowing that you should have at least around 1100 psi of gas left in an Al80 at 80 fsw.

Its also not a very difficult skill, the one time I was called on to exhale on an uncontrolled ballistic ascent I pulled it off fine after only having had the one pool and one OW practice back in my OW class. I don't understand where the desire comes to want to 'practice' something that seems like it should be completely obvious to any certified OW diver.

Meanwhile, all the cases that you cite should be extreme edge conditions. Panic you can deal with by teaching the panic cycle and how to break it and building up experience progressively. Things like CVAs aren't worth thinking about enough to worry about "practicing a CESA" if you are experiencing a CVA -- any such maneuver is a hail mary into the endzone -- you can score a perfect 10.0 from the judges on your CESA and you'll still probably wind up drowned and dead from the CVA.

So, yes divers need to be taught about CESAs. But the major utility of that skill in the ideal world would be the underweighted diver or the weight belt which slips off during the dive. Every OW diver necessarily needs to know how to ascend to the surface on a uncontrolled buoyant ascent without dying in the process. But I don't understand how a sane, thinking certified OW diver can look at their own gas mangement problems and leap to the conclusion that what they really need to do is practice CESAs. Either get a better buddy or even get a pony bottle.

My statement "Gas Planning, Buddy Skills and S-drills can really eliminate the need to ever do a CESA" should be taken *strictly* in the context of the OP in that thread who wanted to practice CESA skills because he was worried about running out of gas. That is really an idiotic response to being afraid of running out of gas since it doesn't solve the underlying problem before it ever gets started and is the wrong end of the equation to be focusing on 'skills practice'. That is what I was responding to. Not to the idea that it should never be taught. It should be taught as a skill to use on a buoyant ascent (and any of the hail mary corner cases you mention, although I doubt I'd recommend teaching those cases to OW students). What is particularly sad is that in OW courses gas management consists of "be back on the boat with 500 psi" and CESA. That is just screwed up in my opinion, sorry.
 
thinking certified OW diver can look at their own gas mangement problems and leap to the conclusion that what they really need to do is practice CESAs. Either get a better buddy or even get a pony bottle.

So...just for argument's sake, what's wrong with diving solo at 60 feet with no pony, no deco load and...maybe doing a couple CESA's every ten years?
 
catherine96821:
So...just for argument's sake, what's wrong with diving solo at 60 feet with no pony, no deco load and...maybe doing a couple CESA's every ten years?
For practice or for real?

If its for real...then Darwin is hard on your heels


If for practice....hummmmm....hawwwwww....there may be better solutions to the problem than CESA.
 
I don't need to practice, but I've done two.

Just not ready to comit to diving joined at the hip.
 
catherine96821:
I don't need to practice, but I've done two.
So that lack of practice did not hinder the swiming up and breathing out.



Good to know.

catherine96821:
Just not ready to comit to diving joined at the hip.
and as an adult...you are allowed that choice.
 
catherine96821:
So...just for argument's sake, what's wrong with diving solo at 60 feet with no pony, no deco load and...maybe doing a couple CESA's every ten years?

I've done a couple of those dives, although they were to 30 fsw, not 60 fsw. The problem is just that if you're planning on a CESA with no gas then you've got huge problems if something else happens at the same time. You are in the regime of a plausible cascade of failures where one event that you plan on seeing every 1-10 years occurs at the same time as something else and the result is a fatality. When the solution is just carrying a pony bottle, I'm definitely more risk averse than that...
 
You are in the regime of a plausible cascade of failures where one event that you plan on seeing every 1-10 years occurs at the same time as something else and the result is a fatality.

okay, but I don't understand why the probability of the "multiple issues at the same time" approaches "likely to happen" since it's very rare that someone dies but very common that people live because they performed a CESA.

That is the logic I cannot see. I do understand your point about gas planning, btw, especialy at depths exceeding 90 ft or so.

Where I get relegated to the "fringe" SB diving element is diving solo or without a pony, and my point is that it is very common, even when people do not know they are diving solo. I've been diving a lot of years and I have never even actually seen a solo diver with a pony.

The fact is that we solo divers are at one end of the continuum and ..maybe DIR at the other end. Doesn't seem right to "chop us off" as irrelevant because some people relegate us to the "you are an adult" category like it is aberrant deviant behavior.

As long as a healthy percentage of divers turned out of OW class are diving solo, you really need to go along with CESA being taught. Then, the DIR divers (or whoever thinks they don't need it in the toolbox) can just choose not to execute if they have a team available with multiple tanks and redundant everything.

Let's face it. Some planes you can crash land, and others, you cannot.
Most of us can crash land, doing the dives we do. So, to not teach me to coast and set down in the field because you are flying a 767 doesn't make any sense. (probability-wise)
 
catherine96821:
okay, but I don't understand why the probability of the "multiple issues at the same time" approaches "likely to happen" since it's very rare that someone dies but very common that people live because they performed a CESA.

Depends on your definition of "likely to happen" it also isn't really "multiple issues at the same time".

Taking the last issue first, there's a difference between this and the hypothetical where you've got a free-flowing reg, your BC inflator hose pulled off, your drysuit has been catastrophically ripped open, your buddy has just gotten eaten by a shark and while you're ascending up the anchor line the boat is decending down to the bottom. You've got a situation which you now expect to happen once every 1-10 years. It has happened to you twice already, which means that things which happen 1 in 10 times can be expected to occur in conjunction with you having to do a CESA. As you run the risk in your lifetime of doing 10 or more CESAs the proability of having a 1-in-100 event occur at the same time as a CESA hits 1-in-10 in your lifetime. That starts to open up a whole realm of plausible coincidences where you run OOA at the same time as you get entangled by some monofilament or something...

Now when it comes to "likely to happen" I personally like to suppress fatal outcomes to something more along the lines of "winning the lottery in reverse" kinds of events. And even considering 1 in 10,000 events that could kill you if it happened during a CESA if you do 10 CESAs in your lifetime that's a 1 in 1000 chance of dying, which is *much* better odds than winning the lottery. Also, when considering the entire population of divers, if those odds are roughly in the ballpark, that means that 1 in 1000 divers who solo dive without a pony bottle will die screwing up a CESA (but 999 other divers will hop onto scubaboard and claim they've never had an issue -- and that is 9990+ successful CESAs for every fatal one).
 
I personally like to suppress fatal outcomes to something more along the lines of "winning the lottery in reverse"

I trust your math is correct but I think you believe you have more control about death than you do. Which is okay, because it makes people feel better. But there is a diminished return for worrying about things as they become less and less probable.

(isn't there?)
I hope you at least see my point that there are more solo divers running around pony-less than there are DIR divers planning to perfection.

That fact alone tips the scale to the CESA side. How is this not logical?

Now, if you guys are going to convert us first, and THEN ban CESA, that would be at least a little more logical. But, don't pretend we are not "out there" diving.

This whole discussion points up a very huge issue.

DIR is about being risk aversive. A safer dive is a better dive, etc.

That is not universally accepted. You want to ride to the store with a helmet on in your car? Cause that might make sense, if you took an honest look at MV accident stats.
 
catherine96821:
I trust your math is correct but I think you believe you have more control about death than you do. Which is okay, because it makes people feel better. But there is a diminished return for worrying about things as they become less and less probable.

Well, I don't really need to feel that I'm personally in control of my own death. A friend of mine died awhile back from cancer of the bile duct which normally kills only people over 70, but he was 35 and it was 1 in a million, but he's still gone. Something like that could happen to me, easy, tomorrow. I don't try to help that process along though.

But when we're considering the population of scuba divers and recommending best practices, even statistically reasonably remote chances of death in a lifetime like 1 in 10,000 or 1 in 100,000 can have a large effect on the number of scuba divers dying out there. With an audence potentially listening I wouldn't recommend diving solo without a pony bottle. When it comes to individual risk, though, clearly we all set our own levels of acceptable risk in life.

(isn't there?)
I hope you at least see my point that there are more solo divers running around pony-less than there are DIR divers planning to perfection.

That fact alone tips the scale to the CESA side. How is this not logical?

Well, its just a pony bottle. To me, it feels closer to wearing your seatbelt than it does to be being paralyzed in fear and unable to leave your own home...
 
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