CESA - why? I'll never run low on air!

[fisherdvm]

It is kinda of sad... AED's can save alot of life, but can cause the LDS alot of headaches too. If we mandated it on dive boats - then the LDS will have to remember to plug it in daily to recharge. They have to change the battery yearly. Replace the adhesive pads yearly. Have the device serviced yearly. And know how to apply it correctly.

The initial investment of $1000 quickly adds up to at least $1500 a year in maintenance, update, etc... With higher gas price, and increased competition, I can see where alot of LDS will balk at a mandate.

Then if you don't do it correctly, you can get sued... I remembered the recent post by an older diver who was angry that some dive boats will not let divers over 50 years of age on board, and likely because they had a lawsuit or worried of a lawsuit over these matters.

At least the ambulances can charge $500 a pop for this kind of stuff. Don't suppose you even get a thank you if you defibrillated someone on a dive... More likely, you would get a lawsuit than a "thank you for saving my life"... Sad isn't it, the american mentality to lay blame on everyone else except themselves.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... I remembered the recent post by an older diver who was angry that some dive boats will not let divers over 50 years of age on board, and likely because they had a lawsuit or worried of a lawsuit over these matters.

If they're worried about a lawsuit they'd better not discriminate their customers by age! That's a huge no-no.
Rick

 

[Charlie99]

If they're worried about a lawsuit they'd better not discriminate their customers by age! That's a huge no-no.
Rick

To the best of my knowlege, most of the training agencies do discriminate by age. They treat "being over 50" as a medical condition and require well seasoned individuals to get a medical clearance to dive signed off by an MD.

Maybe the boat Fishdvm referred to had somehow adopted that sort of waiver. Never ran into it myself on a boat, but shortly after getting certified I did go shore diving with a guide that used a Naui training waiver for all of his customers. IIRC, it had a "gotta have a doctor's certificate if over 50" clause. I was a youngster of 49 at the time, so it wasn't an issue.

Charlie Allen

 

[H2Andy]

better not discriminate their customers by age! That's a huge no-no.

Federal law doesn't extend age protection to customers, only to employees and participants in programs receiving Federal funding.

the various states model their own laws on the Federal law, but i am not aware of any state that has extended age discrimination protection to customers. if any state has, it's probably California.

 

[Charlie99]

So...just for argument's sake, what's wrong with diving solo at 60 feet with no pony, no deco load and...maybe doing a couple CESA's every ten years?

That sort of "risky" diving doesn't take place here on Scubaboard or anywhere else in cyberspace. Oooops. You do your diving in REAL life, making real life decisions as to risk/rewards.

Even over in the solo diving forum diving without redundant air isn't admitted to very often.

In real life, however, I'm not willing to haul along the extra tank, particularly for surf entries, so about half my dives are solo single tank dives. Mostly shallower than 40' for the long dives, if down to 90' it is near the beginning of the dive and with low deco load. If my reg were to suddenly explode or fail closed, then I'd have to CESA. Yeah, it's kind of like a lottery in reverse -- depending upon not drawing the rare fatal ticket ---- but that's true with so many things in life. I just try to truly understand the risks and make rational decisions as to whether the rewards are worth it to me.

If you are going to dive solo with no redundant air source, then CESA is a good skill to have. So far I've never done one for real, but did do a practice one from 90'. Much easier than I expected, PROVIDED YOU JUST LEAVE THE AIRWAY OPEN AND LET AIR BUBBLE OUT ON ITS OWN RATHER THAN FORCEFULLY EXHALING BY HUMMING OR GOING AAAAH.

Charlie Allen

 

[fire_diver]

It is kinda of sad... AED's can save alot of life, but can cause the LDS alot of headaches too. If we mandated it on dive boats - then the LDS will have to remember to plug it in daily to recharge. They have to change the battery yearly. Replace the adhesive pads yearly. Have the device serviced yearly. And know how to apply it correctly.

The initial investment of $1000 quickly adds up to at least $1500 a year in maintenance, update, etc... With higher gas price, and increased competition, I can see where alot of LDS will balk at a mandate.

Then if you don't do it correctly, you can get sued... I remembered the recent post by an older diver who was angry that some dive boats will not let divers over 50 years of age on board, and likely because they had a lawsuit or worried of a lawsuit over these matters.

At least the ambulances can charge $500 a pop for this kind of stuff. Don't suppose you even get a thank you if you defibrillated someone on a dive... More likely, you would get a lawsuit than a "thank you for saving my life"... Sad isn't it, the american mentality to lay blame on everyone else except themselves.

You couldn't be more wrong. You must have the 20 year old AEDs stuck in your head. Modern AEDs are small, portable, and require basically nothing. The batteries last for years, the pads are good for just as long, and they never need "testing" They have an LED readout. All you have to do look at them to see if it's operational or needs attention.

Comrade Stroke

 

[Thalassamania]

You couldn't be more wrong. You must have the 20 year old AEDs stuck in your head. Modern AEDs are small, portable, and require basically nothing. The batteries last for years, the pads are good for just as long, and they never need "testing" They have an LED readout. All you have top do look at them to see if it's operational or needs attention.

Comrade Stroke

How much do they cost?

 

[fisherdvm]

You couldn't be more wrong. You must have the 20 year old AEDs stuck in your head. Modern AEDs are small, portable, and require basically nothing. The batteries last for years, the pads are good for just as long, and they never need "testing" They have an LED readout. All you have top do look at them to see if it's operational or needs attention.

Comrade Stroke

You are correct. I guess most modern AED are self testing, and are maintenance free. Except you have to check and make sure that they are OK and the battery doesn't need to be replaced. I guess that most are guaranteed for 5 to 7 years from date of purchase.

Perhaps you can tell me, do you need a constant power source plugged in to keep them charged, or can you leave them on the dive boat unplugged for extended duration of time.

I know that with my office defibrillators, we are supposed to get them checked yearly... Probably just for the sake of safety, as they too have internal self test.

 

[fisherdvm]

I answered my own question. Some AED batteries are precharged, and have a shelf life of up to 10 years when not used on stand by. When placed inside an AED, their life is decreased, but they said you can expect up to 5 years.

Wow, that's alot less headache than my stupid defibrillators. I think I'll just save some money by buying an AED and not have to worry about checking it or testing it.

 

[Thalassamania]

I answered my own question. Some AED batteries are precharged, and have a shelf life of up to 10 years when not used on stand by. When placed inside an AED, their life is decreased, but they said you can expect up to 5 years.

Wow, that's alot less headache than my stupid defibrillators. I think I'll just save some money by buying an AED and not have to worry about checking it or testing it.

Send me your old ones. Or donate them to your favorite dive boats.