certification limits and how they are considered now days....

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bradlw

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Just wondering from a general common knowledge sort of perspective now days.....

back when I was an active diver 20-30 years ago, and this is how I recall it..... fuzzy on numbers
Recreational diver limits were something like 120 to 130 ft deep, depending on which agency/book you were looking at. Basically Just stay withing ND limits
a certified open water diver was encouraged to stay 60ft or less, as I recall....but no reason they couldn't use judgement and go deeper
It was more of a suggestion or stern advice than a "law"
encouraging Advanced training

although it seemed to be trending towards a hard rule of sorts from the perspective of charter boat operators and dive shop trips
but as I recall when diving on a charter or similar, it was more about being certified and having previous dives to the depths you were going.....
so, an OW diver with fairly recently logged dives in say for example the 80-110 ft range was good to go down to whatever the dive of the day was...no big deal

I'm just curious how the limits are viewed now days.... suggestion, soft rule, hard rule, law, etc.?

looking at the SDI standards online, for example it says
"1. Conduct open water dives in conditions similar to their training to a maximum depth of 18 metres/ 60 feet."​
seems like they are trying to make it a hard rule
 

tursiops

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Just wondering from a general common knowledge sort of perspective now days.....

back when I was an active diver 20-30 years ago, and this is how I recall it..... fuzzy on numbers
Recreational diver limits were something like 120 to 130 ft deep, depending on which agency/book you were looking at. Basically Just stay withing ND limits
a certified open water diver was encouraged to stay 60ft or less, as I recall....but no reason they couldn't use judgement and go deeper
It was more of a suggestion or stern advice than a "law"
encouraging Advanced training

although it seemed to be trending towards a hard rule of sorts from the perspective of charter boat operators and dive shop trips
but as I recall when diving on a charter or similar, it was more about being certified and having previous dives to the depths you were going.....
so, an OW diver with fairly recently logged dives in say for example the 80-110 ft range was good to go down to whatever the dive of the day was...no big deal

I'm just curious how the limits are viewed now days.... suggestion, soft rule, hard rule, law, etc.?

looking at the SDI standards online, for example it says
"1. Conduct open water dives in conditions similar to their training to a maximum depth of 18 metres/ 60 feet."​
seems like they are trying to make it a hard rule
You are conflating training depth limits with dive depth limits post-training.
 

Altamira

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There are a lot of threads on this board addressing your questions. I believe the general consensus is the OW limit (18m/60') pertains only to training dives. After training, divers are free to expand their experience diving to greater depths and more challenging conditions. At the end of the day, if you are diving with a group of divers, not on a chartered dive, you can dive to recreational/NDL limits. My experience with a lot of boat/shore dive operators is your depth limit will be whatever the dive op says it will be for that dive and the skill levels of the individuals and dive group. As an experienced OW diver, I am perfectly happy to stay at 60' if the DM/Instructor feels that is best for the group being led. I am also happy to go down to 100+ depths if that is the selected dive profile.
 
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bradlw

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so sounds like it's considered at least similarly to how I remember

but no I'm no I'm not confusing anything:
from the SDI training standards
7.2 Qualifications of Graduates Upon successful completion of this course, graduates may:
1. Conduct open water dives in conditions similar to their training to a maximum depth of 18 metres/ 60 feet.
2. Conduct dives with other certified divers at the same or higher level of certification.
3. Conduct dives that do not require decompression.
4. Enroll in the Advanced Adventure Diver program, individual SDI Specialties or the SDI Advanced Diver Development program

I'm pretty sure my old training books had much less absolute wording....using "encouraged to" sort of language

but my question isn't about my interpretation or even what the standard say...
and I'm not trying to imply any sort of judgement either way about the practice

My question is more about how charter boat operators look at it now days. What is the overall general view?
If a fairly new diver is joining a 2-tank trip down in Ft Lauderdale with a 1st dive down to say 80-90 ft
but their highest cert id basic OW, what will happen? No you can't go?
what if that same basic OW diver has recent logged dive experience down to 70-80ft?
 

ThatDogDontHunt

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so sounds like it's considered at least similarly to how I remember

but no I'm no I'm not confusing anything:
from the SDI training standards
7.2 Qualifications of Graduates Upon successful completion of this course, graduates may:
1. Conduct open water dives in conditions similar to their training to a maximum depth of 18 metres/ 60 feet.
2. Conduct dives with other certified divers at the same or higher level of certification.
3. Conduct dives that do not require decompression.
4. Enroll in the Advanced Adventure Diver program, individual SDI Specialties or the SDI Advanced Diver Development program

I'm pretty sure my old training books had much less absolute wording....using "encouraged to" sort of language

but my question isn't about my interpretation or even what the standard say...
and I'm not trying to imply any sort of judgement either way about the practice

My question is more about how charter boat operators look at it now days. What is the overall general view?
If a fairly new diver is joining a 2-tank trip down in Ft Lauderdale with a 1st dive down to say 80-90 ft
but their highest cert id basic OW, what will happen? No you can't go?
what if that same basic OW diver has recent logged dive experience down to 70-80ft?
Ops are free to make their own rules...

 

Jcp2

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It seems that commercial enterprises have limits that are determined by insurance underwriters that are more restrictive than that suggested by the certifying agency.
 

ThatDogDontHunt

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It seems that commercial enterprises have limits that are determined by insurance underwriters that are more restrictive than that suggested by the certifying agency.
This concept keeps getting repeated, but does not seem to be true?

 

Doc

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“Arguing” about definitions and word usage, common parlance and mixing contextual applications. Words are hard.

There are no SCUBA Laws, police or courts.

The guy selling you access dictates whatever he decides, including barring your dumb assed split fins. His op, his call.

Or, you can shore dive.

9AC2E7F9-BC07-49C2-ADC3-CD34D25F747C.jpeg
 
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bradlw

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yeah Doc, I get that. No laws, operator set's his rules.... yep. Nothing new there.

but what is the popular consensus out there these days? I haven't dove in over 20 years and I'm just curious....just thinking about how things might be different based on things I'm reading and hearing...that a lot of operators are much more hung up on certifications than they used to be.
 
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dmaziuk

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A working DM may say she'll be holding at around 18m and the rest of you can go deeper to "your certification levels" if you wish. That usually only means she's supposed to say that as part of her pre-dive briefing, nothing more.
 
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