Bazzathemammoth
Contributor
PADI certs are:
Ow 18m
Aow 30m
Deep 40m
Ow 18m
Aow 30m
Deep 40m
certification limits and how they are considered now days....
- Thread starter bradlw
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Are you sure about that? (I could post a photocopy of the relevant page of my PADI OW book when I get home.)
Robert H. Diver
Contributor
Bazzathemammoth
Contributor
That’s how the text is interpreted by dive operators here.
I’ve had this discussion before on sb, and posted pics of my text book. My interpretation was ow 18m, aow 30m and then 40m once more experience gained OR deep cert done.
I tried to argue on my last trip that my aow plus plenty of 30-40m dives should be enough for a 40m limit but the dive op wasn’t interested.
Bazzathemammoth
Contributor
ThatDogDontHunt
Oscar Meyer Weiner
Bazzathemammoth
Contributor
Yea, try telling that to a dive op. I’m starting to remember why I bailed out of the last one of these threads.
Someone’s opinion of what cert limits were or should be doesn’t really matter when you want to go on a particular trip with an operator who follows the limits that are generally associated with a particular cert. All the dive ops I’ve seen here adhere as a minimum to what I posted.
Ultimately there’s no scuba police so do what you want when you are by yourself. Everything in scuba is shades of gray, therefore definitions and classifications are only as we all generally agree. One agency considers deco to 50m on a 12l single tank as a recreational dive, another calls it suicide.
So much depends on location, liability and certifying agency which is why I qualified my perspective as nz based. I don’t have an opinion on how padis guidelines are interpreted in your part of the world.
I'm going to repost something I wrote on a similar thread in 2021. But the short version is there is only one recreational dive limit for WRSTC members (which includes PADI and SSI) for OW divers and that's 40 meters.
Of course local ops can put whatever limits they want, but they are either ignorant or lying if they say lesser limits are an agency requirement.
"PADI is a member of the WRSTC and must follow its standards.
It's interesting that the WRSTC has almost scrubbed the 40m certification limit from their site. Note there is no depth limit given in the Open Water diver standard.
The limit can only be found in two places. The first is in the WRSTC regional member application form. This is the form for certifying agencies who wish to join their regional council, not individual divers. The form states that members must be in the recreational diver certification business, which they define as:
An association, firm, corporation or other entity shall be deemed to be engaged primarily in the recreational diver certification business if more than sixty percent (60%) of its gross revenues are attributable to: the training and certifying of divers using compressed (atmospheric) air for no-decompression diving up to 130 feet/40 meters, the processing of recreational diver certification cards, membership dues from diving instructors and/or stores, the sale of recreational diver training and recreational diver instructor training materials, and fees for the training of recreational diving instructors.
Note that this limit only applies to compressed air. Which brings us to the second place the limit appears. The standard for Enriched Air Nitrox Diver states "5.2.2 All dives prior to enriched air certification shall be conducted at depths between 15 and 130 feet (5 to 40 metres)."
In other words training dives for a Nitrox class may go down to 40m. What about after certification? Enriched Air Nitrox - WRSTC states "At its August 2006 meeting, the RSTC approved a standard for Enriched Air Nitrox diver. This standard is a recreational entry level nitrox diver standard for depths shallower than 130 feet/40 metres."
Note that AOW is not a prerequisite for Nitrox. It can't be because there is no AOW standard. The only prerequisites for a Nitrox Diver course is that the diver be at least 15 years old, be OW certified, and have four (4) open water dives. The 4 dives can include the dives made during OW certification. So according to this standard an instructor could bring an OW diver to 40m on his or her very first dive as a certified diver as part of a Nitrox course. And once certified, the standard specifically allows dives to 40m.
Finally, the course doesn't actually require any dives at all. So an a diver with 0 logged dives after OW certification can obtain Nitrox certification, which we have already seen includes depths up to 40m.
Ok, so you don't want to go with all the legal mumbo jumbo about standards? Try PADI's blog post How Deep Can You Scuba Dive? [retrieved from archive.org]
Many new divers are (understandably) confused about how deep you’re ‘allowed’ to dive as an Open Water Diver vs. an Advanced Open Water Diver. As a clever instructor once said, “at what depth will the scuba police pull you over?”
The maximum depth for recreational diving is 40 metres/130 feet .
There is, however, an important caveat: you should always dive within the limits of your training and experience. Open Water Divers* are trained to dive to a maximum depth of 18 metres/60 feet.
Can Open Water Divers dive deeper than 18 metres/60 feet? Frankly, yes. There are no scuba police out there to stop you (although some dive operations set depth limits and may have policies to deter divers from going beyond those limits)....
Why 40 metres/130 feet? There’s a bit of physics and physiology involved in a full explanation, but the short answer is: 40 metres/130 feet is the deepest you can dive without having to perform decompression stops on your way back to the surface. This depth limit is often referred to as the “no-decompression limit,” “NDL,” or “no-stop limit.” It’s also the depth at which most divers begin to feel the effects of gas narcosis (aka nitrogen narcosis). [emphasis in original]
Or from the PADI owned Scuba Diving Magazine -
Why is 130 Feet the Depth Limit for Recreational Scuba Diving?
So why has every major training agency established 130 feet — 40 meters — as the depth limit for recreational diving? In order to venture further and explore wrecks, caves and other sites beyond 130 feet, these agencies — such as PADI, NAUI and SSI — require “technical” certifications.
This precedent can be traced to the U.S. Navy, which established the rule in the 1950s and still requires special permission from a commanding officer for a diver to exceed this limit.
“The 130-foot limit is an arbitrary depth originally adopted by the U.S. Navy because it gave Navy divers about 10 minutes of (no-deco) time on compressed air; going any deeper on air made no sense to the Navy because the time available to do useful work was simply too short,” writes Lawrence Martin in Scuba Diving Explained: Questions & Answers on Physiology and Medical Aspects.
[/QUOTE]"
Of course local ops can put whatever limits they want, but they are either ignorant or lying if they say lesser limits are an agency requirement.
"PADI is a member of the WRSTC and must follow its standards.
It's interesting that the WRSTC has almost scrubbed the 40m certification limit from their site. Note there is no depth limit given in the Open Water diver standard.
The limit can only be found in two places. The first is in the WRSTC regional member application form. This is the form for certifying agencies who wish to join their regional council, not individual divers. The form states that members must be in the recreational diver certification business, which they define as:
An association, firm, corporation or other entity shall be deemed to be engaged primarily in the recreational diver certification business if more than sixty percent (60%) of its gross revenues are attributable to: the training and certifying of divers using compressed (atmospheric) air for no-decompression diving up to 130 feet/40 meters, the processing of recreational diver certification cards, membership dues from diving instructors and/or stores, the sale of recreational diver training and recreational diver instructor training materials, and fees for the training of recreational diving instructors.
Note that this limit only applies to compressed air. Which brings us to the second place the limit appears. The standard for Enriched Air Nitrox Diver states "5.2.2 All dives prior to enriched air certification shall be conducted at depths between 15 and 130 feet (5 to 40 metres)."
In other words training dives for a Nitrox class may go down to 40m. What about after certification? Enriched Air Nitrox - WRSTC states "At its August 2006 meeting, the RSTC approved a standard for Enriched Air Nitrox diver. This standard is a recreational entry level nitrox diver standard for depths shallower than 130 feet/40 metres."
Note that AOW is not a prerequisite for Nitrox. It can't be because there is no AOW standard. The only prerequisites for a Nitrox Diver course is that the diver be at least 15 years old, be OW certified, and have four (4) open water dives. The 4 dives can include the dives made during OW certification. So according to this standard an instructor could bring an OW diver to 40m on his or her very first dive as a certified diver as part of a Nitrox course. And once certified, the standard specifically allows dives to 40m.
Finally, the course doesn't actually require any dives at all. So an a diver with 0 logged dives after OW certification can obtain Nitrox certification, which we have already seen includes depths up to 40m.
Ok, so you don't want to go with all the legal mumbo jumbo about standards? Try PADI's blog post How Deep Can You Scuba Dive? [retrieved from archive.org]
Many new divers are (understandably) confused about how deep you’re ‘allowed’ to dive as an Open Water Diver vs. an Advanced Open Water Diver. As a clever instructor once said, “at what depth will the scuba police pull you over?”
The maximum depth for recreational diving is 40 metres/130 feet .
There is, however, an important caveat: you should always dive within the limits of your training and experience. Open Water Divers* are trained to dive to a maximum depth of 18 metres/60 feet.
Can Open Water Divers dive deeper than 18 metres/60 feet? Frankly, yes. There are no scuba police out there to stop you (although some dive operations set depth limits and may have policies to deter divers from going beyond those limits)....
Why 40 metres/130 feet? There’s a bit of physics and physiology involved in a full explanation, but the short answer is: 40 metres/130 feet is the deepest you can dive without having to perform decompression stops on your way back to the surface. This depth limit is often referred to as the “no-decompression limit,” “NDL,” or “no-stop limit.” It’s also the depth at which most divers begin to feel the effects of gas narcosis (aka nitrogen narcosis). [emphasis in original]
Or from the PADI owned Scuba Diving Magazine -
Why is 130 Feet the Depth Limit for Recreational Scuba Diving?
So why has every major training agency established 130 feet — 40 meters — as the depth limit for recreational diving? In order to venture further and explore wrecks, caves and other sites beyond 130 feet, these agencies — such as PADI, NAUI and SSI — require “technical” certifications.
This precedent can be traced to the U.S. Navy, which established the rule in the 1950s and still requires special permission from a commanding officer for a diver to exceed this limit.
“The 130-foot limit is an arbitrary depth originally adopted by the U.S. Navy because it gave Navy divers about 10 minutes of (no-deco) time on compressed air; going any deeper on air made no sense to the Navy because the time available to do useful work was simply too short,” writes Lawrence Martin in Scuba Diving Explained: Questions & Answers on Physiology and Medical Aspects.
[/QUOTE]"
Shirley common sense must prevail at some point. Just because you have a certificate that says X doesn’t necessarily mean you should do it. Dives below 30m/100ft quickly get more challenging.
Being experienced enough to know your limitations is critical. Otherwise it’s perfectly reasonable for a skipper to impose limits shallower than your worthless certification.
"Worthless" as it is an arbitrary definition of what you should be capable of and have demonstrated the basic, minimum skills and requirements when you did that course. The problem is that real world diving isn’t like that. Nature’s far more challenging than being certified in a benign location chosen for its ease of training and facing contrived tasks during the course. In the real world random issues may crop up which divers lacking experience and the temperament may find very difficult.
Being experienced enough to know your limitations is critical. Otherwise it’s perfectly reasonable for a skipper to impose limits shallower than your worthless certification.
"Worthless" as it is an arbitrary definition of what you should be capable of and have demonstrated the basic, minimum skills and requirements when you did that course. The problem is that real world diving isn’t like that. Nature’s far more challenging than being certified in a benign location chosen for its ease of training and facing contrived tasks during the course. In the real world random issues may crop up which divers lacking experience and the temperament may find very difficult.
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